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Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

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Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#411
I think a lot of commenters are missing a crucial piece of information about this. These books are being removed from publishing by the owner of the IP, don't blame ebay for this.

I would argue that this isn't really censorship, although it is muddied by the original author being dead, and this being a company set up to manage his IP by his wife.

(I would also argue that ebay removing them in general isn't something to scream about, private companies should be allowed to curate their systems however they want. But that's a different argument)

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#412
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eBay deciding unilaterally that people can't buy or sell already-printed copies eBay isn't deciding that, it is deciding unilaterally that it will not participate in the buying or selling of those items. eBay probably has no interest and in any case has no power to make decisions about what can be bought and sold, only about what it will participate as a facilitator of buying and selling.

Good point! Well I guess I'll just go and buy my copy at the other well known online auction site... what was it called again? /s eBay has a natural monopoly due to the nature of auctions. If they decide not to list something, it becomes at the very least much harder to trade.

eBay clearly has competitors; you could buy or sell a copy on Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/If-Ran-Zoo-Classic-Seuss/dp/0394800...

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#413

Now this part is getting a little too carried away. It is one thing for libraries and bookstores to decide not to offer for borrowing or sale things that they disagree with. It is another (and overstepping imo) for Ebay to restrict individual people from selling to others goods that are not illegal or in violation of their other practical rules (no selling jewelry, monetary equivalents, etc). This falls into the cate…

But it does violate their own practical policies:

> After the announcement, one woman said she listed two titles, “On Beyond Zebra!” and “McElligot’s Pool,” for sale on eBay on Wednesday. Later that day, she said, she received an email from eBay explaining that “On Beyond Zebra!” had been removed from sale because it violated eBay’s “offensive material policy.” The second title was pulled Thursday morning, she said.

As in, the usual über vague policies that give the interpreter of the rules carte blanche to deem whatever he will a violation of the “rules”, — the typical prætence of rule of law, for what is really rule of men.

> Will they apply the logic here to all categories of goods for sale? T-shirts? Political buttons? Historical political pamphlets? Current political pamphlets or campaign material? How about baseball team merchandise that has racist mascots? (Why haven’t they?) Merchandise of companies where the CEO may have bigoted views?

Logic? If ever there will be a consistent thought process, it will be based on analysing profits and on nothing more, not on the actual qualities of the work removed, and most often it is not even about profit, but about gut feeling and arbitrary bandwagons and standards of being offended.

> How about books that have words in them that discuss race, or in any way describe an unflattering picture of a certain group? Or scientific studies that may come to race-based findings?

If ever they become notorious enough that they end up on advertiser's networks blacklists, and thus hurt their profits, then yes.

Consider the situation with TVTropes that implemented it's “content policy” to ban certain content in 2012 for advertisement reasons. The policy itself speaks of content, but in implementation, only matter notorious enough to end up on advertiser's blacklists was removed. So Kodomono Zikan, a work infamous, but actually quite mild when one takes the time to read it, is banned from being mentioned there, but less infamous works such as Prisma Ilya which go far further in serializing minors can freely be featured there, as they never became popular enough to be featured on advertiser's blacklists.

If ever a company have any rational thought process, it shall be in the pursuit of profit; morality is never a rational objective.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#414

I just checked out "If I ran the Zoo", and there's a page with an illustration of African people depicted like monkeys. How do people feel about this-- an overreaction or completely justified?

Is this the African island of Yerka page? If so, that prob hasn't aged well for 2021 but... Eh, just looks more like a stylized/caricature more than anything.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#415

I don't know any culture that banned books independent of their content that people didn't regret in the future. A few months ago I was reading about schools banning the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" because it contains basically the "n" word. I'm not american, and and havent read that book. I watched the movie, through, and it seemed to me to be a very anti racism message. I think instead of banning, schools should w…

>I don't know any culture that banned books independent of their content that people didn't regret in the future. A lot of the most enthusiastic book burners get caught up in the intermediary events and don't make it to the regret phase.

Fair point. But I mean, their children, grand children, etc.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company I work for did something similar at the end of last year. We had consultants who went over everything, and made a massive document of all sorts of things they deemed "problematic". Along with a week long of seminars/training/workshops on sensitivity/inclusion/etc. - Everyone had to list what pronouns they wanted people to use. In slack / our email footers everything. This was not optional. We were also to…

I often like to imagine that if I were in that situation I announce that I sexually identify as military attack helicopters and insist my pronouns are apache/apachim, but I know the irony would be lost on them and really would just result in me getting fired for thought crimes.

Honestly the person running the seminars was very very strict. Several people said "I don't really care what people call me by", or can I just leave it blank to be what people want. The person explained how that attitude is disrespectful to people who do care about these things, and how it can foster an environment of hostility towards people who put them. Which in turn marginalizes those people etc.

However in January the entire sales team removed them after apparently a customer reacted negatively to the inclusion. Which lead to other external facing teams removing it to prevent the same issue. Most people have removed it from emails, and honestly many people just don't seem to care, and HR doesn't seem to be enforcing it.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#417

I was wondering if Americans learned history of other countries in school. HN users or Americans in general probably think China is a totalitarian country, but even Chinese students are taught in both elementary and high schools, repeatedly, that an authoritarian regime always started with moralizing everything, always started with telling its citizens to hate their neighbors, and always told their citizens that misi…

History is written by the victors in all cases. If Hua and Deng didn't win against the Gang of Four, you'd have a different history of the cultural revolution. Fortunately, they won. America's won too much, even when we're wrong or stupid, and our historical frame has suffered.

Germany vilifies one Adolf Hitler, and treats him as the personification of Satan.

The U.S.A. celebrates one Christopher Columbus with his very own holiday.

Both men did rather similar things, with the one exception of course that the latter won his genocide campaigns and racial superiority wars, and the former lost them.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#418
post #18

eBay still sells Mein Kampf. Banning books is stupid.

As I pointed out elsewhere, this is misleading and approaching a lie. eBay only allows critically-annotated copies of Mein Kampf which are designed for scholars. I am sure that a copy of “If I Ran The Zoo” with a sociologist critically annotating the abhorrent racism would be permitted on eBay. From one of the listed items: > This item has been listed previously. eBay removed it with this reminder of the guidelines:…

What about this one?

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Der-Giftpilz-by-Ernst-Hiemer-English...

I can buy a children’s book written by literal Nazis that was created to teach kids why Jews are bad and how to recognize them.

I can’t buy a Dr. Seuss book about the zoo because there’s a mildly offensive picture of a Chinese person.

Really?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#419

I was wondering if Americans learned history of other countries in school. HN users or Americans in general probably think China is a totalitarian country, but even Chinese students are taught in both elementary and high schools, repeatedly, that an authoritarian regime always started with moralizing everything, always started with telling its citizens to hate their neighbors, and always told their citizens that misi…

Ah the typical authoritative propaganda “they are all the same, at least we have order”. No we don’t have in the US a non elected politburo making nationwide decisions on speech issues.

Here we have unelected eBay management (and earlier this year - Twitter, Google, Facebook, Amazon etc) making nationwide decisions on speech. We are getting there.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#420
post #75

My work sent out a memo today regarding what pronouns I'm allowed to use. We're in the middle of a cultural revolution, and the current trend seems to be for rapid acceleration rather than moderation.

The company I work for did something similar at the end of last year. We had consultants who went over everything, and made a massive document of all sorts of things they deemed "problematic". Along with a week long of seminars/training/workshops on sensitivity/inclusion/etc. - Everyone had to list what pronouns they wanted people to use. In slack / our email footers everything. This was not optional. We were also to…

These 'consultants' probably get paid more than me for doing busywork of no use whatsoever.
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