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Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

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Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#21

Post by lotsofpulp »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #19
tomdell wrote: post #16

Surprised by the majority of comments here. How many of you have actually looked at these pictures? A private entity decided to stop publishing certain things. Another private entity is declining to sell old copies of said things. This is not “cancel culture” like conservative commentators want to make it out to be - and I think the publisher and now eBay are making the right call - children are impressionable, and p…

A handful of companies influencing the overton window of the entire nation in response to easily upset Twitter mobs is precisely what I consider to be part of cancel culture.

The irony is that the people I see complaining about are usually very pro market forces and let businesses do what they want type people.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#22

Post by emptysongglass »

offby37years wrote: post #7
tim333 wrote: post #6

The thing seems a bit silly. Curious what was offensive I found the books are on youtube and I'm guessing it's drawing Chinese https://youtu.be/Vl6wD6EGOVk?t=228 and tribal Africans https://youtu.be/Vl6wD6EGOVk?t=519 looking like cartoon versions of those. Does this means cartoon caricatures are only acceptable if they are of white westerners? I mean I can understand the publishers thinking they may get in trouble an…

Yes. When only whites can be racist, only whites can be caricatured.

Not only whites can be racist. Any race in power, anywhere, becomes the new "white man" when powers are tipped. There is nothing fundamental to your skin color: all of us bear the seeds of our future cruelty. And until we address desire and deconstitute it atom by atom, none of us will ever be free.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#23

Post by dTal »

jfengel wrote: post #14
yellowapple wrote: post #4

It's weird that these books got pulled from circulation in the first place; the offensiveness is relatively mild (especially for the time), and quite a few of these have historical and literary significance (including the very first children's book published under the "Dr. Seuss" pen name). eBay deciding unilaterally that people can't buy or sell already-printed copies is just icing on the weirdness cake. This is the…

I agree with you that it's a little weird that eBay has decided to draw the line there, but you might give a second thought to what constitutes "relatively mild offensiveness". These racist caricatures have a long and ugly history, and they persist. They may seem mild to you, but to people who have to deal with racist caricatures every day of their lives, it's unpleasant. Not just having to explain to your children w…

https://images.indianexpress.com/2021/03/dr-seuss.jpg

Maybe I'm old fashioned but all I see is a smiling boy, in traditional Chinese dress, eating what appears to be rice out of a bowl with chopsticks. Are there actually Chinese people who find this offensive? Why?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#24

Post by allturtles »

tomdell wrote: post #16

Surprised by the majority of comments here. How many of you have actually looked at these pictures? A private entity decided to stop publishing certain things. Another private entity is declining to sell old copies of said things. This is not “cancel culture” like conservative commentators want to make it out to be - and I think the publisher and now eBay are making the right call - children are impressionable, and p…

> children are impressionable

Like how exposure to pictures of demons and pretending to be wizards turns young D&D players into satanists? And exposure to violent rap lyrics turns them into murderers?

I have looked at the pictures, some make me cringe a bit, others don't seem like a big deal to me. And ultimately the Seuss copyright holders can do what they want, it's their property. I'm not sure why eBay feels the need to get involved. But I found the "think of the children" arguments for banning media equally unconvincing when they were conservative talking points thirty years ago.

Edit: Also, almost all kids will be exposed to these books with a parent present, having it read to them. The parent can contextualize the images however they like, reducing any risk of bad 'impressions'.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#26

Post by hntrader »

dTal wrote: post #23
jfengel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that it's a little weird that eBay has decided to draw the line there, but you might give a second thought to what constitutes "relatively mild offensiveness". These racist caricatures have a long and ugly history, and they persist. They may seem mild to you, but to people who have to deal with racist caricatures every day of their lives, it's unpleasant. Not just having to explain to your children w…

https://images.indianexpress.com/2021/03/dr-seuss.jpg Maybe I'm old fashioned but all I see is a smiling boy, in traditional Chinese dress, eating what appears to be rice out of a bowl with chopsticks. Are there actually Chinese people who find this offensive? Why?

As someone with an Asian background, it's not offensive at all, and I can't think of an Asian person who would find it offensive.

This is just cancel culture playing out. Weak, risk-averse executives cowardly bending the knee to a small group of malicious, narcissistic activists.

This reminds me of the "What is the problem with Apu?" fiasco. No Indian I knew cared, but a small number of sociopathic activists forced the hands of the cowards in charge.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#27

Post by DanBC »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #2

Am I not alone in thinking this Neo-puritanism is going too far?

Had you ever heard of these six books before today? Have you ever read them? How many were sold?

We've been sanitising kids books for decades now.

What version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory do you own? The original with actual African slaves and the colonialist rescue narrative, or the later version with Oompa Loompas and the colonialist rescue narrative? What version of Edward's Sneeze from the Thomas the Tank Engine series do you own? The one that uses the N word and has a black face joke, or the one that replaced the N word but kept the black face gag?

There are like a million kids books published each year. We're not going to miss the few that have lazy, racist, stereotypes.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#28

Post by jfengel »

dTal wrote: post #23
jfengel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that it's a little weird that eBay has decided to draw the line there, but you might give a second thought to what constitutes "relatively mild offensiveness". These racist caricatures have a long and ugly history, and they persist. They may seem mild to you, but to people who have to deal with racist caricatures every day of their lives, it's unpleasant. Not just having to explain to your children w…

https://images.indianexpress.com/2021/03/dr-seuss.jpg Maybe I'm old fashioned but all I see is a smiling boy, in traditional Chinese dress, eating what appears to be rice out of a bowl with chopsticks. Are there actually Chinese people who find this offensive? Why?

None of the white people are presented in exaggerated, outdated costumes. It exaggerates the slanted eyes, the queue, and (in some editions) the bright yellow color.

Compare it to some of the deliberately-racist cartoons that Giesel drew during World War II:

https://reimaginingmigration.org/dr-seuss-political-cartoons...

This wasn't intended to offend, and I don't know how many people were offended by it. But if I were the publisher the similarities would distress me.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#29

Post by nph5667 »

What bothers me is the speed with which this process - "accused -> convinced -> executed" happens. We are not discussing things anymore. Today, you could tweet any accusations, and, no matter how ridiculous they look at first, it will lead to a race of who is taking them most seriously. Something definitely is broken. Look at what happened to the "okay". 4chan forced that meme 5 years ago in what they thought is a mischievous parody of ridiculousness of the cancel culture, and recently I watched CNL where the audience gasped in disbelief when one of the sketches included "o"-word. 5 years only, and most common (almost used "o"-word, sorry) sign became a synonym of hatred and racism. And now, Dr. Seuss. What's next, someone will tweet the act of breathing is racist? Do you really think it's impossible?

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#30

Post by stolenmerch »

DanBC wrote: post #27
BitwiseFool wrote: post #2

Am I not alone in thinking this Neo-puritanism is going too far?

Had you ever heard of these six books before today? Have you ever read them? How many were sold? We've been sanitising kids books for decades now. What version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory do you own? The original with actual African slaves and the colonialist rescue narrative, or the later version with Oompa Loompas and the colonialist rescue narrative? What version of Edward's Sneeze from the Thomas the Tan…

You just proved the point that things have gone too far. Instead of quietly editing out a drawing or word or two it now must be banned in every store, from ever platform, and even the word "Mulberry", for example, must be purged from theme parks. I wish there weren't old racist things it books too, but the weird censorship and book banning creeps me out.
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