Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#191

Post by sdeframond » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #190

sdeframond wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is that I don't know any community without practical limitations on free speech. The way I see it, we decided as a society that every individual was entitled to fundamental human rights. We also decided in practice that it would be good to put limits on some of these rights, especially when one interferes with another (try insulting a cop or denying the Shoah for example, or insulting the King in Thailand…

Everything you mention is separate from my point, which has nothing to do with free speech. You're view is that practical limitations on free speech are limits placed on a freedom granted you, while I'd say they are infringements allowed on my inherent right. Your notion that this is a small nitpick, or a theory that may be disproved is the wrong way of looking at it. It's two separate ways of looking at the same thi…

> they are infringements allowed on my inherent right

Are you implying we should be allowed to say anything, without any exception?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#192

Post by boomboomsubban » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 11:52 PM UTC

sdeframond wrote: post #191

boomboomsubban wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you mention is separate from my point, which has nothing to do with free speech. You're view is that practical limitations on free speech are limits placed on a freedom granted you, while I'd say they are infringements allowed on my inherent right. Your notion that this is a small nitpick, or a theory that may be disproved is the wrong way of looking at it. It's two separate ways of looking at the same thi…

> they are infringements allowed on my inherent right Are you implying we should be allowed to say anything, without any exception?

I'm implying that we naturally have that right, but we have decided to place limits on it.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#193

Post by orestarod » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 12:14 AM UTC

unityByFreedom wrote: post #186

tim333 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though I'd say the governments there are fairly secure. The Vietnamese communist party has been in power since 1945, China's since '49 and the Cambodian lot only got kicked out when Pol Pot, after having genocided a third of the population, attacked Vietnam who then invaded and got rid of him, and the new lot have been in power since 1984. Sadly throwing opponents in jail seems to kind of work. This of course predate…

That remains to be seen. The world has been trending towards democracy for a few hundred years.

Bold statement. Power however is still not trending towards the people's hands in any case.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#194

Post by unityByFreedom » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 3:38 AM UTC

orestarod wrote: post #193

unityByFreedom wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That remains to be seen. The world has been trending towards democracy for a few hundred years.

Bold statement. Power however is still not trending towards the people's hands in any case.

Not so bold, see this chart [1]

Do you have a better system in mind for trending power towards people's hands?

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-pop-by-political-re...

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#195

Post by orestarod » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

unityByFreedom wrote: post #194

orestarod wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold statement. Power however is still not trending towards the people's hands in any case.

Not so bold, see this chart [1] Do you have a better system in mind for trending power towards people's hands? [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-pop-by-political-re...

I did not comment on whether democracy or "democracy" is the best system for putting power at people's hands. That's another discussion.

My objections is whether we have actually been moving towards democracy or not. To just slap "democracy" or "republic" in the name of a state is not enough to make it so. It's how much autocratic the governors actually are and how much of the political decisions the population is actually able to define, that decides that.

In Greece, for example, government is in reality autocratic and people don't have much say. The only single check in place are the elections, but 1) You have to hope the other options are not just as bad as the current, which is unfortunately not the case, and 2) the established "aristocracy" has been doing a damn good job at managing people's opinions through the controlled media.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#196

Post by unityByFreedom » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

orestarod wrote: post #195

unityByFreedom wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so bold, see this chart [1] Do you have a better system in mind for trending power towards people's hands? [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/world-pop-by-political-re...

I did not comment on whether democracy or "democracy" is the best system for putting power at people's hands. That's another discussion. My objections is whether we have actually been moving towards democracy or not. To just slap "democracy" or "republic" in the name of a state is not enough to make it so. It's how much autocratic the governors actually are and how much of the political decisions the population is ac…

You're not locked up for criticizing the government or aristocracy in Greece. That's something. I agree that media, both traditional and the new social media, can be heavily influenced if not controlled by aristocracy. Democracy won't save you, it simply allows you to save yourself if you work very very hard to do so. My impression of Greece has been that it's a beautiful country full of great people that finds itself in hard times. Democracy isn't the cause of Greece's woes. As you say, people need to be better informed. Perhaps we should all go back to blogging on our own domain names, or at least encourage people to also take control of their social media content by using distributed systems. Clearly democracy + centralized social media isn't good enough.