Live data from Hacker News

Myths about how the brain works

nautil.us

41–50 of 129 posts

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#41
post #3

There are lots of popular tropes of how our brain works and I'd agree with this author that they are oversimplified and generally incorrect - I'd add the left brain right brain divide to the list. However the author appears to be arguing from a position that they (or someone) actually know how the brain works - having done a neuroscience degree, my one take home was that when it comes to modelling the brain against o…

I had the same reaction to parts. This in particular: > So why does the myth of a compartmentalized brain persist? One reason is that brain-scanning studies are expensive. As a compromise, typical studies include only enough scanning to show the strongest, most robust brain activity. These underpowered studies produce pretty pictures that appear to show little islands of activity in a calm-looking brain. But they mis…

The issue here is the brain of test subjects aren’t simply doing exactly one thing at a time. Your ears don’t turn off because you’re doing a memory task in an MRI.

As such it’s impossible to say what subset of brain activity is directly related to some activity rather than some related mental processes.

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#43
Great article, as usual from Nautilus!

I would like to add one more myth the list. The idea that we all have a finite amount of brains cells.

They used to teach that we’re all born with a certain amount of brain cells, and over time from aging, or getting a concussion, or if you ‘do drugs’, you would lose said cells. And that’s that. No more new brain cells :)

We know this to be false now. I don’t know how much this one has persisted, I haven’t heard it in a while. But it was drilled into my head as a kid.

Not related to brains, but another health myth that comes to mind is the idea that our tounges & taste buds are divided into ‘zones’ that perceive the different flavors. I don’t remember the order, but something like the tip tastes sweet, the middle is umami, the sides are sour, et cetera.

Now we understand all taste buds taste all flavors. Is is interesting these old models science came up with to try to explain things, and how long some of them persisted.

PS: Check out the 2002 album ‘Phrenology’ by the Roots. It’s a classic!

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but pedantry aside, the 20th century kicked the 21st century's ass when it comes to scientific discovery. Some stuff discovered between 1900 and 1920: - Relativity - Atomic nuclei - Darwinian modern synthesis On the technological application side, there was the airplane and mass production of cars, plus the growth of telephony and radio. In the 21st century we have: - found a bunch of extra solar planets but th…

I feel like it was greatly due to the WWII. Those and so many other discoveries were the direct result of programs like project manhattan. Maybe the human species really needs to be pushed to extinction to further tξhe human enterprise or maybe it was just the crazy funding similar to bell labs.

My comparison period was 1900 to 1920.

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#46
obviously, Jerry Fodor was wrong. But anyone who studies cognitive science still gets this stuff shoved down his throat. The followers will however claim there's a difference between the brain and the mind.

from Wikipedia: "For Fodor, significant parts of the mind, such as perceptual and linguistic processes, are structured in terms of modules, or "organs", which he defines by their causal and functional roles. These modules are relatively independent of each other and of the "central processing" part of the mind, which has a more global and less "domain specific" character. Fodor suggests that the character of these modules permits the possibility of causal relations with external objects. This, in turn, makes it possible for mental states to have contents that are about things in the world. The central processing part, on the other hand, takes care of the logical relations between the various contents and inputs and outputs"

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#47
>Brains, however, don’t work by stimulus and response. All your neurons are firing at various rates all the time. What are they doing? Busily making predictions.

Is this a polling system...

Oh actually more like a branch predicting system...

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#48
post #3

There are lots of popular tropes of how our brain works and I'd agree with this author that they are oversimplified and generally incorrect - I'd add the left brain right brain divide to the list. However the author appears to be arguing from a position that they (or someone) actually know how the brain works - having done a neuroscience degree, my one take home was that when it comes to modelling the brain against o…

I had the same reaction to parts. This in particular: > So why does the myth of a compartmentalized brain persist? One reason is that brain-scanning studies are expensive. As a compromise, typical studies include only enough scanning to show the strongest, most robust brain activity. These underpowered studies produce pretty pictures that appear to show little islands of activity in a calm-looking brain. But they mis…

All of this seems really confused to me, or so simplified that it no longer makes any sense.

The simplest thing you can do in a scanner is have them sit there doing nothing while you acquire scans. In the end, you just have a 4d matrix of unsigned integers. For each voxel you can acquire an average over the scan and check whether it is significantly above zero using a t-test. Given enough data everything will be significantly greater than zero, including parts outside the head. Or you can compute a global mean to center all the voxles, and check which parts of the brain are significantly above the average, or significantly below the average. Extremely simple analyses (and so yes, there are lots more you could do).

In task fMRI, you have them do a task, and you use events in your task design as predictors of the BOLD, and then display a voxel map of either the beta values, or, more commonly, the T-values of those regression betas (or a contrast of those regression betas). In this case, you really aren't looking at activity. You are looking at correlations.

Those islands of activity in whole-brain analysis images in figures in papers happen because the result images are thresholded, e.g. at p Let's take a concrete example. You have a subject do a task where they have to choose between two gambles varying in risk and reward. Then, for each voxel, you predict the BOLD time course using a series of events (time of presentation of gamble options) with magnitude equal to the coefficient of variation between the two gambles. So now, for each voxel you have a beta value showing how CoV predicts BOLD. You notice that anterior insula on both cases has the highest beta values. You threshold at conventional statistical signficance, after correcting for multiple comparions, and all the spurious, or less important, correlations drop out of the image, and you are left with two bright spots on a map pin-pointed on the left and right anterior insula. See: in this anaylysis, not all "psychologically and biolotically meaninful activity" is being examined or looked at. For example, button presses events show up localized in the motor areas too, but they weren't looking at those. But they could have, if we were interested.

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same reaction to parts. This in particular: > So why does the myth of a compartmentalized brain persist? One reason is that brain-scanning studies are expensive. As a compromise, typical studies include only enough scanning to show the strongest, most robust brain activity. These underpowered studies produce pretty pictures that appear to show little islands of activity in a calm-looking brain. But they mis…

The issue here is the brain of test subjects aren’t simply doing exactly one thing at a time. Your ears don’t turn off because you’re doing a memory task in an MRI. As such it’s impossible to say what subset of brain activity is directly related to some activity rather than some related mental processes.

The brain is doing multiple things at once. But that doesn't mean its impossible to subset brain activity related to specific activities.

Re: Myths about how the brain works

#50

> The 21st century is a time of great scientific discovery. Cars are driving themselves. These are the first two sentences of the article and already I'm skeptical. I'd say the self-driving cars are mostly a product of recent technical inventions and not scientific discovery - the scientific discovery happened mostly in the XX century, with discoveries which made integrated circuits, or lasers (for lidar) possible. T…

I completely agree with you and I don't think it's being pedantic at all. Clearly the 21st century is bearing the FRUIT of scientific discovery and we're seeing incredible iteration and innovation that is very exciting. But much of this is the result of things which were DISCOVERED in the 20th century.

Language is important. "Discovery" means something just as "inventing" means something. I see these words used all the time for things like websites (Facebook/Twitter) or computer hardware (Apple products most notoriously). Something can be a wonderful and very popular implementation without being either a discovery or an invention. Often these larger things DO contain many smaller real discoveries and inventions along the way! But people always seem to be referring to the end product as a whole, which I find bizarre.

Post reply on HN