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Killing TurboTax

kunle.app

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Re: Killing TurboTax

#641

Post by sneeze-slayer »

grumple wrote: post #637
bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

I strongly disagree with this. The tax code is relatively straightforward for a programmer. It’s a bunch of conditional statements and simple math. Even the cases you mention are straightforward compared to the usual ambiguity that comes with engineering a product. TurboTax is awful software. One question at a time, their user flow is AWFUL. Truly abysmal design for even the simplest of tax situations. The IRS’s free…

You mean for free file forms you don't like getting an email with some incomprehensible language? Oh, don't worry they provide a tool. Just copy the _entire_ email they send you and paste in some tool.

Genuinely it is a horrible experience, but I suppose it is better filing by paper and waiting a few weeks for a small correction.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#642

Post by harperlee »

sokoloff wrote: post #628
harperlee wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn’t it tax fraud if you consciously withhold information that would negatively impact on your total obligation?

There is a lot of financial information (which is private by default) which is irrelevant to a person’s current tax obligation. That’s the information that I only want my paid advisor(s) to have; this is a privacy concern, not a cheat-on-taxes concern.

But if it is irrelevant why do you fear that you will need to provide it? I’m honestly at a loss. Do you mean something such as to whom do you send wire transfers, or which specific companies you have on your portfolio? Or more like having an account together with someone? Something else?

Re: Killing TurboTax

#643

Post by Decade »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #491
azog_alone wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the tax code is so complicated is BECAUSE OF TurboTax. They lobby heavily to keep things complex and have brought down potential competitors through legal means. As such, "killing TurboTax" is the correct first step.

I don't think that's true. The US has used tax laws as a way to effect policies since before Turbotax existed. I think the mortgage interest deduction goes back 100+ years

The mortgage interest deduction was an accidental side-effect of pro-business regulation, and it doesn’t advance any reasonable societal goals. It’s effectively a regressive tax break, the richer the beneficiary the larger the tax break, up to ordinary 7-digit millionaire.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/magazine/who-needs-the-mo...

Re: Killing TurboTax

#644

Post by lolsal »

revscat wrote: post #467
koboll wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a really easy first step would be for Democrats to pass a bill allocating money for the IRS to build a What You Owe API that banks and companies can access. Then every bank on the planet can implement a "Click to pay your taxes" button. Attack the problem at the source.

Someone would filibuster it. There’s really no hope.

You could give up or you could try. Seems like you've already made your choice.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#645

Post by Double_Cast »

ajmadesc wrote: post #607
Double_Cast wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One benefit of markets is price-discovery. But if you're not participating in a market, determining price is akin to shaking a magic 8 ball. It assumes a Just Price, which is a heuristic and a fiction. Also, quality of living is determined by income, not wealth. Fresh retirees are generally wealthier than other age-groups because they've saved for retirement. But that doesn't mean they consume more. Also, consider th…

Wealth tax has nothing to do with markets and Nobody whants to tax the level of wealth for an ordinary retire silly. That's a straw man. The American capital, legal, and tax structure collude to reduce wages, whereas the Dutch system incentivises responsible 'market based solutions' The only people who want to live with a somali gov are gop

The retiree example is intended to demonstrate that a wealth tax is inherently perverse, regardless of who is targeted. Savings are just deferred expenditure and debt is just expedited expenditure. When you tax wealth, you expedite consumption.

Another way of thinking about this: A wealth tax is like inflation, except assets are also devalued alongside your savings. Which means the wisest strategy is to consume now, save nothing, invest nothing.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#646

Post by spiralx »

bob1029 wrote: post #446
dllthomas wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I expect it to succeed, but I wonder what would happen if you tried throwing machine translation at the raw tax code.

What if we rewrote the tax code with code? There are many high level languages (especially functional ones) which could address this problem domain really well if we had the courage to start completely over. Imagine a legal document that is written using terminology that is ultimately just a series of higher-order functions. A human could make sense of it with some training, and a computer could directly execute it w…

Legal documents are already a combination of data values and custom rules, they just also reference external rule sets such as legislation, regulation or case law. I work at a company where we use the same data points to generate the legal documents for a funding round as well as the cap table before and after the round is closed. Term sheets are just a very verbose data file lol.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#647

Post by mixmastamyk »

compiler-guy wrote: post #503
mixmastamyk wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do know almost everything and learning more every day. Of course there are extenuating circumstances, which you will list and have to prove if a question comes up. This is not an excuse for tax filing being more difficult than it needs to be.

The great-grandparent's claim is that they already know. They don't already know. I can list two dozen things off the top of my head that they don't already know. Should tax filing be easier? Sure. But, "They already know how much you owe." is patently false.

It's an approximation, and they will come looking for it if you don't file. So yes, it does have some level of truth (and force) behind it.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#648

Post by javagram »

zimpenfish wrote: post #380
ghaff wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's nice to have a corporate bogeyman to rail against but it's not that simple. For example, there have been all sorts of tax deductions over the years to incentivize things like home energy efficiency improvements, EVs, solar power, charitable contributions, etc. And the mortgage deduction was/is intended to promote home ownership. I could go on. Someone can disagree with some of the choices around tax rates…

> all sorts of tax deductions over the years to incentivize things like [...] But plenty of other countries have those too and manage to not have an insanely complex tax-filling regime? > but it's not that simple I think if the main difference between the US and other countries is the aforementioned "corporate bogeyman", it probably does boil down to being that simple.

> But plenty of other countries have those too and manage to not have an insanely complex tax-filling regime?

Citation needed. How can you have a non-complex tax filing regime when you have so many deductions and credits that only the taxpayer knows about or has documentation of?

When I donate to a charity, they don’t report my donations directly to the IRS (nor should they - we don’t want the government to be collecting data on everyone’s charity giving). I have to collect the letters they send me at the end of the year and total my donations in order to deduct my charitable contributions. The government never even knows what charities I donated to unless I’m audited and they ask for proof.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#649

Post by zero_deg_kevin »

bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

Most US federal and state taxes can be computed by a rules engine. The big annual challenges are: updating the interviews, QA-ing the rules/engine, fed/state rule-making delays/defects, and ensuring that required printable forms are pixel-perfect replicas of their government-published sources.

For tax year 2017 (a pretty typical year), there were over 5000 Federal/state forms/interview scripts to be updated. This requires a seasonal army of tax accountant/developers to update the app "content." It's not uncommon for providers to be updating forms/interviews well into March (when filing opens in January).

Source: worked for a Turbotax competitor

Re: Killing TurboTax

#650

Post by javagram »

specialist wrote: post #156
wwww4all wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democrats have the entire government now, President, senate and the house. Democrats had filibuster proof majority when Obama was president. Why are you just blaming Republicans?

It's true that the Democratic caucuses, both federal and state level, are much harder to hold together. Every year there's a bill in my state to reign in pay day lenders. Basically banning usury level interest rates on loans. Overwhelming popular support (~80%) and editorial support. And every year there's a "blue dog" Democrat living in a purple district which bends to the pro pay day loan lobbyists. Vetocracy is a…

Making payday lending illegal will push poor people who desperately need the cash to seek it from organized crime instead.

There’s a reason those bills get stopped and killed. They sound good on their face, but when you dig into the details they harm the people they’re supposed to help.

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