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Killing TurboTax

kunle.app

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Re: Killing TurboTax

#631

Post by alexchamberlain »

hahajk wrote: post #624
alexchamberlain wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can eliminate tax returns for most people by getting their employer to do it for them, which is effectively how the UK PAYE system works. Only those paid more than 100k, the self employed or others who want to claim certain tax incentives have to file what's known as a self assessment.

In the US our employers also submit our taxes to the govt. But because they don’t have enough information about our lives (mortgage payments, donations, savings incentives) they send the wrong amount. In April we “file our tax return” and pay/have returned the difference.

Interesting. Mortgage payments wouldn't attract tax relief in the UK, and everything else has a nil rate band, so only those with large savings have to declare. Charity donations are dealt with through a scheme called Gift Aid - essentially, the charity claims the tax back.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#632

Post by FabHK »

null0pointer wrote: post #527
bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

I agree, a vastly simplified tax code is needed. Here's my dream for a simpler tax code: The only tax is a Sales tax/VAT/GST. Pros: - Individuals never have to think about tax. It would completely eliminate tax returns. That alone is worth it's weight in gold since tax returns are such a time and money burden. - It would close all the loopholes megacorps/wealthy individuals use to pay less tax. You cannot avoid spend…

So, this is basically a tax on consumption.

Not a bad idea per se, but regressive, as many pointed out. However, in conjunction with a UBI it might make sense, and be progressive.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#633

Post by FabHK »

cies wrote: post #620
null0pointer wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, a vastly simplified tax code is needed. Here's my dream for a simpler tax code: The only tax is a Sales tax/VAT/GST. Pros: - Individuals never have to think about tax. It would completely eliminate tax returns. That alone is worth it's weight in gold since tax returns are such a time and money burden. - It would close all the loopholes megacorps/wealthy individuals use to pay less tax. You cannot avoid spend…

> Here's my dream [...] The only tax is a Sales tax/VAT/GST. Ok, I'll share mine: the only tax is on pollution and/or scare resource usage. It's weird that we tax anything that's considered "good" in my opinion. Taxing housing, income from labour, consumption -- who came up with these shit ideas? Tax only, ONLY, what is considered bad (or should be reduced to a minimum), mainly: pollution. And the market will organiz…

Both together would be good. Tax externalities (=carbon tax etc.), and tax consumption (=VAT).

Re: Killing TurboTax

#634

Post by [deleted] »

xyzelement wrote: post #556
null0pointer wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, a vastly simplified tax code is needed. Here's my dream for a simpler tax code: The only tax is a Sales tax/VAT/GST. Pros: - Individuals never have to think about tax. It would completely eliminate tax returns. That alone is worth it's weight in gold since tax returns are such a time and money burden. - It would close all the loopholes megacorps/wealthy individuals use to pay less tax. You cannot avoid spend…

> Won't this disproportionately tax the poor? - Firstly, the existing tax code already does. I used to think this because it's often said, but learned it's not true. This sums it up: The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent. The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.5 percent) than the botto…

[deleted]

Re: Killing TurboTax

#635

Post by gher-shyu3i »

mjevans wrote: post #548
null0pointer wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, a vastly simplified tax code is needed. Here's my dream for a simpler tax code: The only tax is a Sales tax/VAT/GST. Pros: - Individuals never have to think about tax. It would completely eliminate tax returns. That alone is worth it's weight in gold since tax returns are such a time and money burden. - It would close all the loopholes megacorps/wealthy individuals use to pay less tax. You cannot avoid spend…

A wealth tax. All assets and cash need to be properly valued and then that value taxed. I agree with the sibling comment and also with past discussions where a wealth tax is the only non-regressive (not-keep the poor down) tax code.

I highly recommend that people look into Islam's Zakat laws. Zakat is a form of "tax" if you will, but is much superior and has been proven to work historically. Money that has been sitting in your account unused for a year is "taxed" at 2.5%. Things like livestock and produce have their own rates.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#636

Post by moduspol »

motbob wrote: post #116
coldpie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you really screw up[1], or are intentionally trying to screw the IRS[2], you don't have to worry about an audit. The IRS's goal isn't to bring down their wrath upon you, their goal is to accurately collect the taxes they are due. If you pay too little, they'll ask you to pay the difference. If you pay too much, they'll refund it. Really: I once used the single-payer tax table instead of the filing-jointly tax…

I agree with the basic premise that the IRS is nothing to be afraid of if you make a simple mistake. Though if you make a $5,000 error (which is getting out of "simple mistake" territory), they'll tack on a 20% penalty. That being said, audits are incredibly annoying if you didn't make a mistake, especially if children are involved. The Examinations department of the IRS is hard-headed, to say the least, and they wil…

I made an error like that one year. It was as simple as me (personally) not receiving one of the 1099s from a few months of work my wife had done for a non-profit.

For those unaware: You get a 1099 when you're paid as a contractor, which means taxes haven't been taken out yet. It's fairly common for temp work and similar oddjobs that don't warrant a dedicated employee.

There was no audit in my case. They just sent me a letter that boiled down to that I had missed that 1099, and they were correct. I was just a little miffed that they waited almost a year to send that letter, which by then had higher interest / penalties than if I had been notified sooner. Still way better than an audit would be, though.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#637

Post by grumple »

bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

I strongly disagree with this.

The tax code is relatively straightforward for a programmer. It’s a bunch of conditional statements and simple math. Even the cases you mention are straightforward compared to the usual ambiguity that comes with engineering a product.

TurboTax is awful software. One question at a time, their user flow is AWFUL. Truly abysmal design for even the simplest of tax situations.

The IRS’s free file fillable form site is similarly awful; their asynchronous, background xml validation of forms after they’ve been submitted to notify you that their system let you input something invalid is a laughable system design.

This market is ripe for disruption. I do feel that should come from the government itself, but that seems unlikely for political reasons.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#638

Post by ktapcnbje »

Others wrote: post #534
null0pointer wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, a vastly simplified tax code is needed. Here's my dream for a simpler tax code: The only tax is a Sales tax/VAT/GST. Pros: - Individuals never have to think about tax. It would completely eliminate tax returns. That alone is worth it's weight in gold since tax returns are such a time and money burden. - It would close all the loopholes megacorps/wealthy individuals use to pay less tax. You cannot avoid spend…

I think this is fundamentally a regressive idea. Currently the very poor pay zero (or effectively zero) income taxes. No matter how you structure the sales tax, you cannot go below zero. (I think negative sales tax is not actually realistic, nor particularly progressive.) A system that only taxes spending fundamentally has problems in that the richer people can afford to save and invest.

Fair tax, a proposal for replacing current taxes with a federal sales tax, has already come up with a solution for this. Under its plan every person receives a check to cover the sales tax on spending up to the poverty level.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#639

Post by exabrial »

Law of Unintended consequences: I pay an absurd amount of taxes, enough to fund several countries. Making it easier to pay them isn't going to make the fact that we subsidize high ranking government employee's lives and donors any better.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#640

Post by alkonaut »

benmw333 wrote: post #484
alkonaut wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I saw a proposal to make tax codes simpler, have people file taxes with a good app provided by the IRS etc and then I saw a politician vote against it, while being funded by companies benefiting from the status quo... I'd just not vote for that person again.

This is 99.9% of politicians.

Voters get the politicians they deserve. In some systems it's easier to be corrupt. IIif there are only 2 major parties so you don't need to good just better than the other guy, or if politicians are funding their own campaigns so you are indebted to sponsors and companies before you are even elected.

But voters are also responsible for those systems being in place.

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