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Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

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Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#201
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and all those things are harmful to the planet.

Human life in general is harmful to the planet. So what are you saying?

I don't understand why you would feel as though this reply says anything. There is always something worse or has alternative consequences.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#203
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not just some article, it's a peer-reviewed study from the University of Arizona. Surely it has fault, but honestly I don't think a "cursory glance at wikipedia" provides a compelling counterargument

> This is not just some article, it's a peer-reviewed study from the University of Arizona Without going into the paper itself, why do you believe being peer-reviewed means that we cannot - and should not - look at it critically with our own brains and minds, analyze the evidence, and reach our own conclusions?

The comment did not say anything like that. You're making a strawman.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#204

While this is sad, this is a self correcting problem. Miners and other people using bitcoins are going to get tired at some point of the loss from buying all this energy to keep their bitcoin assets going. The most scary part of cryptocoins is the deflationary cycle that makes these crypto asset potentially displace productive investment on an economy wide scale. This is not self correcting. This is Moloch, it's a pr…

Disclaimer: I'm fairly uneducated on cryptocurrency and failed miserably at economics, so these are just musings.

Do you think any of those negative effects are counteracted by crypto creating a new ecosystem for the exchange of value? I'm not certain myself, but I'm curious what your thoughts are. It is slightly different than gold, in the sense that normal people (that can afford expensive graphics cards) can "earn" value—at the expense of energy consumption and thus proxying all of the destructive nature of that industry.

On one hand, it doesn't really appear that it will increase the velocity of money, given that you're now just introducing a bunch of arbitrage opportunities in the exchange markets... That might even contribute to your point, that the larger "crypto" as a whole scales, the more it will serve to suck actual value out of the global economy.

It's an interesting thing to consider.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#205
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can rent a moving truck to get groceries, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. There might be narrow use cases, but that doesn't mean it's the best realistic way to solve every problem, and it doesn't mean it's worth the cost.

I hear what you're saying, but it's not nearly as "narrow" as you suggest. Remittances from the United States total hundreds of billions of US dollars each year [1]. Even with what I feel are bloated fees associated with Bitcoin, it is vastly cheaper than other services like Western Union. 1. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/interactives/remittance-f...

The concern here is power use vs. utility relative to other options, not price. By cost I meant the cost under discussion: environmental and health. How much energy do remittance services use to move an equivalent amount of money? What about the cost to health and the environment?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#206

I don't understand where all these "cryptocurrency vs the environment" posts are coming from recently. The core problem is energy use, no? Things using electricity - of which bitcoin is a huge one - are powered by environmentally damaging supplies. I don't care about BTC at all, but if it were to be wiped out of existence tomorrow it would prevent further damage to the environment in exactly the same way that getting…

There is the resource cost of crypto but also an opportunity cost. Given all the smart minds and money devoted to crypto research, could humanity not benefit from other projects?

Talent invested in the crypto space pales in comparison to what we waste in finance. Our greatest minds are more likely to be arbitraging pork belly futures (PrIcE dIsCoVeRy!) than working on crypto.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#207
post #145

I don't understand where all these "cryptocurrency vs the environment" posts are coming from recently. The core problem is energy use, no? Things using electricity - of which bitcoin is a huge one - are powered by environmentally damaging supplies. I don't care about BTC at all, but if it were to be wiped out of existence tomorrow it would prevent further damage to the environment in exactly the same way that getting…

Huh? It would reduce a statistically significant amount of wasted energy. About as much as Ireland uses every year. Seems like a good goal to pursue, unless you’re a nihilist I guess

If the energy was previously excess energy being thrown out, is using it for bitcoin actually increasing the energy footprint?

Not saying all bitcoin mining is this way, but a portion of it is.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#208

While this is sad, this is a self correcting problem. Miners and other people using bitcoins are going to get tired at some point of the loss from buying all this energy to keep their bitcoin assets going. The most scary part of cryptocoins is the deflationary cycle that makes these crypto asset potentially displace productive investment on an economy wide scale. This is not self correcting. This is Moloch, it's a pr…

> Miners and other people using bitcoins are going to get tired at some point of the loss from buying all this energy to keep their bitcoin assets going

The only reason miners mine (at least most of them) is because they get a return on their upfront energy costs by the rewarded BTC, so why would they suddenly get tired of it?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#209
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and all those things are harmful to the planet.

Many I just listed use more energy than btc...so yes, they are.

So what are you saying, that because other things are also bad we can't have a discussion how bad one thing is?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#210
Ok, assuming for a moment this is true, I never hear anyone talk about how much energy bank branches and ATMs consume.

Everything needs the Internet, servers, etc to function. That requires electricity. BTC or cryptos aren’t the problem.

Focus on sustainability of energy production, renewables.

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