Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US • Hacker News Board

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#131

Post by ohgodplsno » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #118

ohgodplsno wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptobots really believe this? Even as a European citizen, I have faith that the US Dollar will stay the US dollar, and keep value. The Euro will keep being the Euro. Hell, even the Yuan will stay the Yuan. Just accept that you're willing to shit on the planet to make a few bucks, it's fine.

>Even as a European citizen, I have faith that the US Dollar will stay the US dollar, and keep value. Clearly the market doesn't think so. Nearly every asset class is getting inflated in the past year, in the middle of a pandemic no less.

That's... called printing money. Inflation is a necessary evil and infinitely more preferable to the alternative that is bitcoin, which gives you no reason to ever use it. Why would you use it at 10k when it's going to be a 20k next month ?

Inflation encourages money changing hands. The market has absolutely fuck all to do with it.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#132

Post by rkachowski » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

I don't understand where all these "cryptocurrency vs the environment" posts are coming from recently. The core problem is energy use, no? Things using electricity - of which bitcoin is a huge one - are powered by environmentally damaging supplies.

I don't care about BTC at all, but if it were to be wiped out of existence tomorrow it would prevent further damage to the environment in exactly the same way that getting rid of plastic straws stopped plastic polluting the ocean.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#133

Post by capableweb » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

Jenk wrote: post #121

skinkestek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you deny that hydro is cheap or do you claim that miners choose to use power in more expensive locations?

Miners don't care/get a choice. They plug their machines into the nearest wall socket.

Maybe in the beginning but today miners make lots of choices about where to build/expand their operations based on energy costs, government policies, energy source and more.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#134

Post by skinkestek » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

Jenk wrote: post #121

skinkestek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you deny that hydro is cheap or do you claim that miners choose to use power in more expensive locations?

Miners don't care/get a choice. They plug their machines into the nearest wall socket.

Maybe not individuals, but large one must think economy.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#135

Post by rmorey » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

thirtythree wrote: post #95

From seeing this, I fear the HN I once knew and liked is gone. The article isn't accessible, doesn't make sense and is promoting poor discussion. fwiw, I realize this comment doesn't help much either.

sci dash hub dot st/10.1016/j.erss.2019.101281

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#136

Post by kristo » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

It’s hilarious to see the coin bros attack this article. The point here isn’t the number, it’s the scale of waste, which is astronomical.

I would rather protect the environment than someone’s ability to buy drugs online. What other legitimate purpose does btc serve right now other than illegal activities?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#137

Post by ihsw » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

thirtythree wrote: post #95

From seeing this, I fear the HN I once knew and liked is gone. The article isn't accessible, doesn't make sense and is promoting poor discussion. fwiw, I realize this comment doesn't help much either.

It's a cash-grab with social justice written all over it and pseudo-science justification sprinkled on top, of course it will shoot to the top of HN.

They are distrustful of decentralized bottom-up economics and they see a flood of interest in BTC, and, in this case, the gravest of sins has been committed -- there is economic activity that cannot be interdicted for extraction of payment or imposition of equity. Of course it must be outlawed.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#138

Post by engineer_22 » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

HPsquared wrote: post #17

Worth noting the figures are comparing the value created in a year (2018) by mining, compared to the damage done by said year's worth of mining. Not that the cumulative damages amount to the total market cap (though this could be calculated as well)

It would be interesting to know what value the authors place on the damages caused by a typical single family home's annual electricity usage.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#139

Post by user-the-name » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #104

crumbshot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of this electricity comes from the cheapest source of power, which is hydro. This has become almost a religious belief amongst cryptocurrency acolytes, but it's simply not true. -- Edit: please see my comment¹ and piplikoc's comment² below for more detail on this. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342411 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342366

Do you deny that hydro is cheap or do you claim that miners choose to use power in more expensive locations?

Bitcoiners use the cheapest energy they can find in place where they can cheaply install hash power.

Some of that may be hydro. A lot is coal.

Even when they do use green energy, the effect of doing that is to displace other users onto dirtier forms of energy, thus creating just as much pollution anyway.

Bitcoin is not green in any way whatsoever. Bitcoin specifically wastes energy, by design. This is never green. The first principle of green energy is to use less energy, as no energy is clean.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#140

Post by trident5000 » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

kryogen1c wrote: post #100

> responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages red flag this article is steeped in pseudoscience. you could spend a lifetime trying to model and predict global weather patterns _with no outside intervention_. the idea that you could even make an attempt at attaching a number to this phenomena is laughable. what are the error bars here, 10,000%? lets pretend, for example, you tried to estimate the impact of tsu…

You could make up some fear mongering "study" about almost every energy using topic. AI and video rendering for instance which is often for some marginal purpose. Or heating pools, idle electronics, big homes with AC, leisure travel, all the useless crap bought and manufactured in China with dirty coal, etc.