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Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

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141–150 of 153 posts

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#141
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking of a tool to generate a kind of schema for a website, similar to RDF[0] or JSON-LD[1]. The end goal of this would be interoperability between tools - ideally I could browse HN and other related sites or forums in my RSS reader with a unified interface, or translate the Roam note format into the Athens equivalent to use with either. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework [1…

To me RSS is exactly that. I don't see the advantage of converting an HTML to RDF because it would cover the entire spectrum. All the semantics might be lost. RSS is the smallest common denominator. If you agree somehow, you might be interested in that tool [0], it converts HTML to RSS using pattern matching. [0] https://github.com/damoeb/rss-proxy

Sorry, RSS was probably a bad example. I meant that I could have One Interface to Rule Them All, seamless collaboration between similar tools (e.g. viewing repositories on Github and Gitlab in a single application, or ordering a few items from a few different sites in a single place). I think the problem today is that data between websites is disjointed and not interoperable with other sites; my solution would be to build a tool that generates a kind of formula for conversion from multiple sites, such as Github and Gitlab, to a standard format, which can then be consumed by an application. Data and features wouldn't be mapped one-to-one, which is probably one of the larger problems.

The tool looks fantastic though, thanks for sharing.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#142
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RemNote looks good. From the FAQ Data Ownership: You own your data - always. You'll be able to export all data in its raw state and import it to another tool. Free Access Guarantee: We'll always provide a feature-rich, free-for-life version of RemNote. Current users will never be asked to pay for any feature they're already using, in the feature's current state. Guaranteed Access Clause: In the extremely unlikely eve…

The most interesting thing about this for me (as somebody who already uses TiddlyWiki and is just curious about features) is the ability to easily make flashcards from components of your zettelkasten. I already use Anki heavily for studies that require it but integration would be even more powerful - copying text snippets from a zettelkasten to Anki is unsolving the problem that knowledge-map systems are trying to so…

If you already use both TiddlyWiki and Anki, check out my TiddlyRemember plugin: https://sobjornstad.github.io/TiddlyRemember/

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#143
post #114

I must somehow have missed the trend around networked tools such as Roams (and Notion?). Would someone be so kind and educate me why this got a trend and that it's not a fad. I wonder if this link-setting which is still a manual task would not get tedious over time. Then, I could imagine that finding content is still faster with a full-text search or question-answering DL models than clicking through all your links.

While i was researching on the possibility of using wiki software for ontology management back then on 2018, i just realized that "wiki is probably good for personal note taking". From there, at first, i forked pmwiki and modify its UI and UX, focusing it more for personal notetaking than a community wiki. Later, i completely rewrite everything from scratch, aiming for performance reasons (https://github.com/altilunium/rtnF). Now, i use it everyday for my personal use. In fact, this comment is drafted on rtnF first. HackerNews' textarea is too small for me to compose a long text.

Then, out there, coincidentally "networked note" application is booming. Roam Research, Obsidian, and even more : https://www.notion.so/Artificial-Brain-Networked-with-linear... . I dont know who is the actual first inventor. I think Roam popularized it first on the public.

Later, people start asking frequently "which notetaking app do you use?". The realization that people do need a notetaking app. Text editor and word processing software are not enough for notetaking. Because the former is intended just for editing a file and the latter is intended for producing printed document. Notetaking is different usecase. Well, even though the frequent answer like "i use pen and paper" "i use my own brain" is rampant on this kind of thread.

Whether on this is a fad or not, i think some people actually need this kind of app. But i doubt whether everyone need it or not. For me who usually research things, collect data from experiments, write down important texts from papers and articles, write down important information while attending online meetings. All of those can be stored and managed on this kind of app. Using text editor and word processing software for this kind of usecase will make your folder cluttered with files, it's hard to manage it.

>I wonder if this link-setting which is still a manual task would not get tedious over time. Then, I could imagine that finding content is still faster with a full-text search or question-answering DL models than clicking through all your links.

Link forces you to organize your notes, i think. Even though i agree that it get tedious over time.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, like OP, you are concerned about the closed nature of Roam, you could make that converter instead of a replacement for Roam. You could say openness is “a feature, not a product”, and it’s a feature that could be retrofitted.

You could, yeah. You could put in a lot of work, just for read-only feature parity. Or you could work some more, and have a competing product. You seem adamant, that the former is a better path, but I don't quite see why would you do all that work for naught. (Roam already broke my backup script 2 times, and there are better uses of my time than interfacing with a proprietary product, if there are better alternatives…

I'd say a parser is an order of magnitude less work, but if someone wants to make a full product I'm not going to try to stop them.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#145

A few alternatives in this space: org-roam https://www.orgroam.com/ tiddlyroam https://tiddlyroam.org/ Dendron https://dendron.so/ Foam https://foambubble.github.io/foam/ Remnote https://www.remnote.io/ Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ logseq https://logseq.com/ Not an expert with them at all. I've never had a desire to dig into all their complexity, but some are pretty passionate about it.

My dream would be seamless interoperation between all these tools. Would also mean better 'competition', easier to convince people to try them, avoiding lock-in in one tool, etc etc. For some tools it's already possible to interoperate -- for them would be nice to have summaries on what are the caveats (e.g. would the tool format my whole note base? would it break any special syntax imposed by the other tool? etc etc…

That setup would also be a defense against potential bad actors acquiring one of the tools and somehow adding malicious code to it, so then people are quickly mobile to move to a comparable; like with the recent situation with The Great Suspender extension.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#146

A few alternatives in this space: org-roam https://www.orgroam.com/ tiddlyroam https://tiddlyroam.org/ Dendron https://dendron.so/ Foam https://foambubble.github.io/foam/ Remnote https://www.remnote.io/ Obsidian https://obsidian.md/ logseq https://logseq.com/ Not an expert with them at all. I've never had a desire to dig into all their complexity, but some are pretty passionate about it.

My dream would be seamless interoperation between all these tools. Would also mean better 'competition', easier to convince people to try them, avoiding lock-in in one tool, etc etc. For some tools it's already possible to interoperate -- for them would be nice to have summaries on what are the caveats (e.g. would the tool format my whole note base? would it break any special syntax imposed by the other tool? etc etc…

logseq seems to support markdown and org-mode :)

Sadly the transclusions ("Block embed") are not supported by any non-roam tools.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#147
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me RSS is exactly that. I don't see the advantage of converting an HTML to RDF because it would cover the entire spectrum. All the semantics might be lost. RSS is the smallest common denominator. If you agree somehow, you might be interested in that tool [0], it converts HTML to RSS using pattern matching. [0] https://github.com/damoeb/rss-proxy

Sorry, RSS was probably a bad example. I meant that I could have One Interface to Rule Them All, seamless collaboration between similar tools (e.g. viewing repositories on Github and Gitlab in a single application, or ordering a few items from a few different sites in a single place). I think the problem today is that data between websites is disjointed and not interoperable with other sites; my solution would be to…

Similar tool for "RSS from any page": https://github.com/taroved/pol#readme

Not sure what are the differences though

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#148
post #108

"The problem with notetaking is that we don’t look back at 99% of our notes." Can you answer why this is the case? Is there a disconnect between what we initially capture (thinking it's valuable) vs what ends up being valuable? Is it too hard to find stuff? I've tried the graph-based note taking apps like Roam, and while clever, it just didn't click for me, I felt like I would get lost navigating around. Also, Roam i…

> it just didn't click for me

ISBN-13: 978-1542866507 ISBN-10: 1542866502

https://www.amazon.com/How-Take-Smart-Notes-Nonfiction/dp/15...

Read that book. Or at least skim through it. I tried learning Org-Roam and started making notes while reading it. Even before I reached the end of it, I was sold on Zettelkasten. Even if I end-up using some other tool (I hope I wouldn't have to), my life will never be the same as before.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#149

> Something else that's interesting about the most powerful networked tools like Roam and Athens is that you can't really make these apps with JavaScript How come? There's no single feature that you can implement in any other programming language that you can't also implement with JavaScript, right?

> you can't also implement with JavaScript, right?

I don't want to sound like a condescending snob, but I honestly wish someone tried to convince me years ago. I myself have spent over a decade dealing with JavaScript (and many other languages as well). Multiple times I had a chance to learn Clojure, but I dismissed every opportunity. I didn't like it. It seemed to me there was nothing "sexy" about it. And one day, I just decided to give it a try (it appeared that I tried many things, and finally I had to try this). The basics I learned pretty quickly. But the more profound philosophy of the language and its ecosystem took me quite some time.

It is incredibly challenging to attempt to explain in a single comment what makes Clojure so much nicer than everything else I have tried before. And I promise you, I did try using lots of different things before that. But please, I urge you to explore it wholeheartedly, and I promise, you will be rewarded. Accept it with all its intrinsic beauty and unavoidable flaws. I guarantee it - you will never regret that.

Re: Launch HN: Athens Research (YC W21) – Open-Source Roam Research

#150
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, RSS was probably a bad example. I meant that I could have One Interface to Rule Them All, seamless collaboration between similar tools (e.g. viewing repositories on Github and Gitlab in a single application, or ordering a few items from a few different sites in a single place). I think the problem today is that data between websites is disjointed and not interoperable with other sites; my solution would be to…

Similar tool for "RSS from any page": https://github.com/taroved/pol#readme Not sure what are the differences though

I did not know this one. The difference is that the first one extracts the feeds automatically, the second one not. Here the user has to define everything.
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