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India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

blog.mozilla.org

21–30 of 131 posts

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#21
post #3

Stupid people making laws for the things that they don't fully understands.

Racist much? Not sure if you are Indian, but calling other people of different race stupid for protecting it’s own country makes you look crap, and you very well might be.

Don't think anybody was thinking about race here. More like taking aim at the political do gooder class.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#22
Key points from the article

1. Traceability of Encrypted Content

2. Harsh Content Take Down and Data Sharing Timelines

3. User Directed Take Downs of Non-Consensual Sexually Explicit Content and Morphed/Impersonated Content

4. Social Media User Verification

5. Automated Filtering

6. Digital Media Regulation

Except point 3. Read each sentence with "Do not do" and see if it makes sense for internet.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#23
post #4

Well the power is stripped away from unregulated social media giants, so the feeble dependents (Mozilla) are raging on that how it will “harm” internet and “curtail” freedom. Play stupid games and win stupid prices. No govt will surrender sovereignty and media control. Just because US is dumb enough to completely surrender itself to Social media megatech companies that doesn’t mean everyone else wants to.

> Play stupid games and win stupid prices. No govt will surrender sovereignty and media control.

Why should government control the media ? That makes no sense.

Most of the social media giants lose money on their India operations while giving poor Indians an opportunity to have a better platform to express themselves. India has virtually seen a one party rule since independence, that too by a single family who could be more corrupt than all the south american dictators combined. The only way an ordinary tea seller could become a PM while defeating this party was because of power of social media are grassroot movement against corruption.

India has a history of screwing up what works without fully understanding the consequences of their regulations.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#24
Hey there. I have been a lurker on HN. I made this account just to comment on this thread. I am an Indian and live in India and I'm glad that international media is paying attention to what is going on here.

I used tor to create this account because I'm afraid of this govt. This govt is a classic fascist one. On the same lines of NSDP of Germany. Those who are dissing Mozilla for shining the light on what is obviously an attempt to censor critical voices on internet, should also point out that India has enacted laws which allow Police to incarcerate people without trial, without bail for years. So many of our intellectuals are in jail and they have not faced a single day of trial.

There is so much to talk about what is going on in India. Let me just lay out a few points: 1. We have enacted a set of laws which will lead to loss of citizenship for Muslims. 2. We have enacted laws prohibiting marriage between interfaith couples (Nuremberg laws anyone).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Jihad

3. Thugs of ruling party are roaming the streets catching couples belonging to different faiths, especially if the boy is muslim and girl is hindu. A young muslim boy is still in jail because he attended the birthday party of a hindu girl.

4. A hindu girls pregnancy from her muslim husband was forcibly aborted.

Shame on Indian diaspora for supporting all of this. You guys should know that the endgame is wholesale genocide of muslims here

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#25
Privacy is not such a big thing. Most of the Asian societies have been very open in the past and privacy only hurts it. But, with the power to monitor people in the hands of government or social media companies, it is better to have at-least some privacy. Encryption for financial transactions is a must. Reputations can be built and tarnished easily very rapidly. It is natural that there should be adequate protections in law. Social media should not be used to incite mobs or fan riots. More such actions are required to prevent unnecessary conflicts. Tracking user actions only help in identifying when trouble arises.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#26
Mozilla has lost all standing as a defender of free speech.

They have cheered on when the free speech rights of american citizens was being curbed.

And they track their users while also taking money from google. I am sorry that the fancy minimal cartoony graphics and plastering black and brown faces on your homepage does not cut it anymore.

>India’s new intermediary liability and digital media regulations will harm the open internet

No, it will harm mozilla's interests, and its biggest customers(google at al).

>Under the new rules, law enforcement agencies can demand that companies trace the ‘first originator’ of any message.

How is this different from when a US court asks a company to aid in an investigation.

>Short timelines of 36 hours for content take downs and 72 hours for the sharing of user data for all intermediaries pose significant implementation and freedom of expression challenges

So if it were to become 100 hours or 200 hours it would be okay ??? If you are not accepting liability for user content, the government has a right to say what is and is not acceptable content. If anything, 36 hours is too much time.

>User Directed Take Downs of Non-Consensual Sexually Explicit Content and Morphed/Impersonated Content

Taking down revenge porn is bad ??

>Social Media User Verification

This is indefensible and I agree.

>Automated Filtering: While improved from its earlier iteration in the 2018 draft, the provisions to “endeavor” to carry out automated filtering for child sexual abuse materials (CSAM), non-consensual sexual acts and previously removed content apply to all significant social media intermediaries (including end to end encrypted messaging applications).

This is a good move, albeit not technically possible in case of e2e encryption.

Overall, the intention seems good albeit a few regulations that are not possible. I am not sure why Mozilla is hand wringing over this, or what locus standi they have on the issue. They have already lost any goodwill they used to have.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#27
The Article states that "Ripple effects of these provisions will have a devastating impact on freedom of expression, privacy and security" This is not true at all. Rather In his Speech Union minister Ravi Shankar Prasad (Minister of Communications) Stated clearly states that. "We all respect the right of the people to criticise us but will take action if social media is used for violence and fake news and will take actions if anyone misses social media to impact polls" He also added "I want to tell social media giants , work here but follow our laws" Every country has right to protect itself, wether the threat is from Terror or Fake news . Indian Government is doing exactly the same as this so called Freedom of Speech can not be used to hide fake news and Monarchy of tech Giants (it is crystal clear by the double standards of some social media platform as how they handled the accounts of those involved in Capitol hills riots and Violent Protest at Delhi Red Fort On Republic Day of India.)

These are not the rules to curb freedom of speech , but it is a platform to burst fake news, protect women from abusive messages and tweetes. No Social media message will be blocked. Rather these rules will protect citizens from dark side of social media.

As article claims , there wont be any devastating impact on freedom of expression privacy and security.

The article is in english, but the attached rules are in Hindi. I would urge the author to attach english version of it so that people can understand it well rather than relying on this article alone.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#28

The Article states that "Ripple effects of these provisions will have a devastating impact on freedom of expression, privacy and security" This is not true at all. Rather In his Speech Union minister Ravi Shankar Prasad (Minister of Communications) Stated clearly states that. "We all respect the right of the people to criticise us but will take action if social media is used for violence and fake news and will take a…

The attached rules are in Hindi and English. Scroll to page 19.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#29
post #17

People who see some good in this are naive, its no a blow to the social media giants, the big players can always afford to be an exception to regulation ....

Of course. Google for this: over regulation benefits the incumbent. I quote one of the results

> More generally, however, a higher overall level of regulation in a country can benefit larger incumbent firms that have the resources to shoulder compliance costs while their smaller competitors falter in the face of an increasing regulatory burden.

Re: India’s new intermediary liability and digital media laws will harm the internet

#30
There is an odd trend in pieces submitted about india that spawns new accounts in support of whatever it is the india government is doing.

I'm in the west so probably better to updoot someone from india that has better insight. This is just my observation.

If what mozilla is saying is true this is a very obvious power grab that only applies to law abiding people. Internet protocols don't care about laws, you can try to enforce origin IP's and ban E2E encryption but bad actors can use these regardless of the law. It's all simply math and basic network packets.

Any software cryptographer or experienced programmer can tell you that. Meaning the intentions of this legislation cannot be honest, and therefore it's not for good.

As for social media regulation - by creating special regulations you lock in the current market. For example the reason why you can't compete with youtube in western markets is because youtube has to have very advanced processing heavy algorithms for content detection because copyright infringement, illigal material, etc. But japan has all their own ecosystem of social media and video.

The government also isn't somehow the good guys when trying to regulate big social media. If you give them the power to do that then they can also be the ones to shut down alternative social media with fines, police, and guns.

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