Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut • Hacker News Board

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#901

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #886

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I think that still leaves open the issue of humans hunting animals for sport. For example, if someone enjoys hunting lions, is that "a good reason", in the same way that someone enjoying torturing a house cat is "not a good reason"? I honestly don't think so. In the same way, I don't think it's a good reason to rape someone because it would give the rapist pleasure. There has to be a balance, right? Killing an ani…

> Killing an animal to eat it makes sense, because you can't eat it without klling it. Just to think through the logic of that statement, let me also point out that killing an animal to mount its head on your wall makes sense, because you can't mount its head on your wall without killing it. I think I agree with most of what you're saying, but we need to be careful not to hide implicit value judgements in our argumen…

You don't have to kill an animal to mount its head on a wall- you can wait for it to die. The reason people don't do that is because they want to display those heads as trophies.

I think there is an ocean of difference between killing an animal to feed on its flesh, and killing an animal purely for enjoyment, or for bragging rights. Feeding is necessary. Bragging about what a big hunter one is, is not.

Anyway I think there are many more people who think recreational hunting is crule than people who think meat is cruel.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#902

Post by phonypc » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

snoshy wrote: post #689

frequentnapper wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the issues with those ingredients?

The issue is that the vast majority of these ingredients are artificial substitutes for the actual content of a pizza-like-thing that an average consumer might expect. That they are artificial is not in itself inherently an issue (at least to me, although many many artificial additives have been proven to cause problems while manufacturers continue to use them), but the fact that so many substitutions are made all at…

What ingredients of a "real" pizza have been substituted for? That list includes flour, water, salt, yeast, tomato and cheese, which are roughly speaking the essential components of a pizza.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#903

Post by phonypc » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

Singletoned wrote: post #691

m8s wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ingredients ENRICHED WHEAT FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, AND FOLIC ACID), WATER, LOW-MOISTURE PART-SKIM MOZZARELLA CHEESE (CULTURED PART-SKIM MILK, SALT, ENZYMES), TOMATO PASTE, COOKED SEASONED PIZZA TOPPING MADE WITH PORK AND CHICKEN, BHA, BHT AND CITRIC ACID ADDED TO HELP PROTECT FLAVOR (PORK, MECHANICALLY SEPARATED CHICKEN, WATER, TEXTURED SOY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, SPIC…

That pizza would be illegal in the Uk. BHA and BHP are banned over here

This appears to be untrue, based on a cursory google search.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#904

Post by buzzy_hacker » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #688

3131s wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no love here, you're killing the animal. Don't delude yourself.

Quite the opposite. When I've raised poultry and other animals, gave them a great life, enjoyment, health, and a painless passing, and in return they gave me sustenance. In addition, you are in fact designed to consume a wide variety of foods including meat; you're the one that is delusional, not me. Go lecture a Hawk or Lion.

That which is natural is good. N is natural. Therefore, N is good or right.

Premise 1 is lacking.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#905

Post by uxcolumbo » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #898

uxcolumbo wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what you mean? How does understanding pain relate to how we humans or other animals feel pain? I don't get your point.

Basically the point is that I think it's first and foremost on you to prove that pain is an objectively bad quality in all cases. Or if not that, to demonstrate why pain is a morally bad thing to cause in animals, without relying on your experience as a human being (who has meta-cognition, which animals do not).

Thankfully it's been already established that animals experience pain and that it's bad. Even the veterinary community created guidelines for pain management in animals [0].

But let's say the above wasn't the case, basically your argument seems to be that because animals can't think about thinking, the pain they experience isn't bad.

But luckily there are a few thought experiments you can do:

If you have a dog, what do you think would happen if you try to cut your dog with a box cutter? Do you think it would yelp, try to run away or even bite you? If so, why?

Another one... so metacognition also implies self-awareness. Pigs have demonstrated that they possess this, by passing the mirror test [1]. Children under 2 can't pass this test. So using your theory, do you think it's OK to inflict pain, since kids under 2 can't experience 'bad quality' pain yet?

We probably will never know how other sentient beings experience pain, since we don't physically experience their pain. If you hurt yourself I can empathize however, I can see that you're experiencing pain.

It's the same with animals, humans can recognize when other animals are in pain and we usually have an urge to help.

Seriously, go watch Earthlings [2] and tell me what you see is not 'bad quality' pain or is not a morally bad thing. If you think it's totally fine what you see and it's morally OK then I guess you are also disagreeing with ethic scholars like Peter Singer or Richard Dawkins [3]. Richard Dawkins even says animals might experience pain more severely than we do and wouldn't it be better to give them the benefit of the doubt?

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[0] https://wsava.org/global-guidelines/global-pain-council-guid...

[1] Smart Pigs vs Kids | Extraordinary Animals | BBC Earth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mza1EQ6aLdg

[2] https://www.nationearth.com/

[3] Richard Dawkins: No Civilized Person Accepts Slavery So Why Do We Accept Animal Cruelty? | Big Think - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#906

Post by canadianfella » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

ricardobayes wrote: post #732

reedjosh wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same happens when humans switch to a largely corn diet. Corn and wheat (maybe just grains) just don't seam healthy. If I had to drop meat, I'd primarily eat beans/legumes.

That's why only Europe has its cuisine based on grains. All other regions base their cuisine on either potatoes or rice.

WTF are you talking about?

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#907

Post by buckthundaz » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

La1n wrote: post #751

buckthundaz wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/78/4/734/4690022?login... https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/carnivore-diet-fo...

That first study compares to meat-containing diets with each other, see the methods section. edit: I also have some doubts on the care taken in this study and it's peer-review. As there is an easy to spot mistake in table 2 (the dietary fat section).

Studies on human nutrition are extremely limited. If you'd like to see a case reports about keto eating putting Diabetes Type 2 in remission see below:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2019.0034...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325029/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7342268/

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#908

Post by Black101 » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #743

yurishimo wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea depends on how you use it. Ground meat cooked for a casserole, probably too much fat, but 20% fat in a burger is good.

Nah, it's all the same. People who need to drain mince don't know how to cook properly. Burgers are supposed to be made with lean meat but with extra fat added in to make it nice again. That's the whole point of a burger. You take tough, lean meat that is otherwise undesirable, and grind it up and mix it with fat. Essentially creating the perfectly marbled steak. Grinding premium cuts is idiotic.

> People who need to drain ground beef don't know how to cook properly.

lol

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#909

Post by ericd » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #822

ericd wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly feel-good greenwashing, as far as I can tell. Bill Gates recommends a company for doing offsetting that actually pulls carbon out of the air and sequesters it underground, removing it from the carbon cycle: https://climeworks.com/subscriptions It appears to cost ~$1/kg, but I'm guessing that will come down substantially if they're able to scale it up.

Well, a tree removes quite a lot carbon for quite a long time. Just let it grow for a century or so.

Good point. Not sure if they're allowed to grow for that long, I think some options are on timberland. But if they are, it seems like a reasonable short-term help.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#910

Post by dane-pgp » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #901

dane-pgp wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Killing an animal to eat it makes sense, because you can't eat it without klling it. Just to think through the logic of that statement, let me also point out that killing an animal to mount its head on your wall makes sense, because you can't mount its head on your wall without killing it. I think I agree with most of what you're saying, but we need to be careful not to hide implicit value judgements in our argumen…

You don't have to kill an animal to mount its head on a wall- you can wait for it to die. The reason people don't do that is because they want to display those heads as trophies. I think there is an ocean of difference between killing an animal to feed on its flesh, and killing an animal purely for enjoyment, or for bragging rights. Feeding is necessary. Bragging about what a big hunter one is, is not. Anyway I think…

That ocean doesn't seem very wide to me. If someone is eating an animal's flesh rather than plant-based food, presumably they are doing so "purely for enjoyment" of the taste of that flesh, especially if the animal flesh is more expensive.

I don't see why enjoyment of the taste of an animal is any better reason to kill it than enjoyment of the "sport" of hunting it or enjoyment of the bragging rights of having killed it. (To be clear, I'm saying that I think neither of those actions are inherently objectionable).

It should be possible to put these actions on one or the other side of a bright moral line, without reference to a specific society's opinion of how "cruel" those actions are, which I think in practice is heavily correlated with how much people have participated in those actions.

For example, if more people grew up hunting, then I'd expect that recreational hunting would not be regarded as cruel, and if more people grew up in a vegetarian society, I think that more people would think that eating meat is cruel. I suspect the latter would also change if more people were forced to work in a slaughterhouse for a few weeks.