Killing TurboTax • Hacker News Board

Re: Killing TurboTax

#181

Post by bluGill » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

RC_ITR wrote: post #138

kleer001 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now, the system we have is pretty good. Not compared to other countries it isn't. Not by a long shot. Video with transcript below: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/dreading-taxes-countries-s... Get the heck out of here with your bull pucky

Sure, but that would require a significant shift away from our current deduction-based approach. Good luck prying that out of the cold dead hands of boomers (and eventually Gen X)

A large part of it has been. The standard deduction is high enough now that most people can't take advantage of the deduction based approach. Of course most tax people will tell you to save all receipts, they will happily charge you to look through them and calculate that they are not big enough to matter. If people knew how simple their taxes really were most people wouldn't be willing to pay as much for it.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#182

Post by djrogers » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

jorblumesea wrote: post #101

motbob wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS can simplify the process, sure. And if you are living alone, have no children, and don't care about taking advantage of any special credits or deductions, then a "file for me" button would be fine. (Though the process for those taxpayers is already in a good place--I filed my taxes for free in about 30 minutes this year.) But if you, say, have children, the IRS will not be able to "file for you" in any meanin…

Most countries have their version of the IRS "file for you" without any of those difficulties. Everyone reports tax information to the central authority which determines how much you owe. Even complex things like 1099-B, 1099-Div etc. Which is how the current system works anyways, it just eliminates the hassle. There's almost no scenario where the IRS cannot do this stuff. Think about this fact: your W-2, 1099 invest…

Yes, those docs are filed with the IRS, but charitable contributions, child status (are they dependents or not this year?), expenses (home office, side hustle, property management etc), and many other things aren't.

If all your tax returns reference are the handful of items you mention, your tax return can be done in a matter of minutes on a short form.

Yes, it could be better, but it's a fantasy to think it should be as simple as getting a bill from the IRS at the end of the year.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#183

Post by artificialLimbs » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #153

chrisseaton wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Each year, I look around for alternatives so I can avoid giving them money Why not pay an accountant? Why is everyone trying to do their own taxes? By the time you've spent a couple of hours looking for alternatives... you might as well have just paid a professional to do it!

It’s pretty simple to do your own taxes unless you have your own business and partnerships and whatnot. Spend a couple hours reading the instructions, use the IRS free fillable forms website, and you do it once and every year after it’s quick and easy. Things don’t change much year to year. If you don’t understand, post a question a personal finance forum and someone will pipe in with an answer.

> Spend a couple hours reading the instructions...

lol bro, I'm employed and married with 2 kids.

I guess that's considered a partnership.

;)

Re: Killing TurboTax

#184

Post by mr_tristan » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

wheybags wrote: post #167

Something I never understood about us taxes - from reading discussions online, it seems like everyone needs to file taxes at the end of every year? Here it's only self employed, or people with rental or investment income. In a normal employer-employee relationship, the employer has to take care of it for you, they deduct taxes before sending the money to your account. This seems to be the way it works in most places,…

Yes. And Intuit's lobbying has helped ensure that never changes.

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

Most Americans are simply unaware that other countries have dramatically simplified this problem. It's amazing how many have magically assumed this was because this was some socialist concept and the immediately launch into "oh, but how much more in taxes are you paying? pfff."

Re: Killing TurboTax

#185

Post by ISL » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #160

ISL wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow, the IRS compares the tax return I submit with what they expected. It is that entire machinery that is in the public interest to be visible and audited by the public.

You can't FOIA the data they use for your taxes. They have your W2 data, and it was sent to you, but they won't give it to you.

Agreed, but one ought to be able to FOIA the entire pipeline that handles the data. This is especially so given that the results of the pipeline are used for tax enforcement and litigation.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#186

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #179

chrisseaton wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s pretty simple to do your own taxes So why do people complain about it so much? To the point where they're writing their own custom software (?!) to do it?

Mostly because it's an unpleasant task that can involve large sums of money if you put things in the wrong boxes. And even relatively straightforward brokerage accounts and second income sources start cranking up the complexity in a hurry.

I don’t find that to be true about brokerages. I have 4 different brokerages, and each one sends a well labeled 1099-B/DIV/INT.

Non W-2 or 1099 incomes with various deductions get things complicated though, and I would punt that to an accountant.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#187

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

zaychikk wrote: post #124

coldpie wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your taxes are super simple, you can use the IRS's free fillable forms: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... You basically type your numbers in and it does the math for you. Then you print it out and mail it in. It can't do anything complex, though. In my experience (Minnesota), state filing is even easier, usually just copying numbers from your federal form and doing one table lookup. N…

Also, if your income is under $72,000 you can use the TurboTax website completely free through the Free File program: https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/browse-all-offers

[deleted]

Re: Killing TurboTax

#188

Post by motbob » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #155

motbob wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's "bull pucky" to you, but I have vivid memories of my parents agonizing over taxes as a child. The agony they went through is much ameliorated now due to advances in technology. And thank you for the link, but this news segment basically is big on opinion, low on specifics. Feel free to link me to a detailed article on how non-U.S. countries handle self-employment or dependent tax issues and whether/how tho…

Most importantly, most countries do it by simply having much higher thresholds for complicated tax rules applying to you. In the UK quite a few people don't pay any tax at all, and the vast majority don't pay enough tax to have to file any return. What impact does a dependent have on your tax that needs to make it so complicated? I have relatively complicated taxes due to two jobs and some unusual deductions, but hav…

Well, if you are a simple family where everyone is biologically related and living together, then things are pretty simple in the end. The issues come up with mixed families, divorced parents, etc.

As for the dollar values, if you make $30,000 and have 2 kids, you can usually get a $6,000 tax credit or more. The U.S.'s support for working low-income families is carried out through the tax system. Put another way, tax credits are one of the U.S.'s most important social safety nets.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#189

Post by bobbylarrybobby » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

wheybags wrote: post #167

Something I never understood about us taxes - from reading discussions online, it seems like everyone needs to file taxes at the end of every year? Here it's only self employed, or people with rental or investment income. In a normal employer-employee relationship, the employer has to take care of it for you, they deduct taxes before sending the money to your account. This seems to be the way it works in most places,…

Technically you only need to file if you owe the government money. If you have money deducted from your paycheck, you will want to file in order to get a refund, but technically you don’t have to.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#190

Post by djrogers » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #51

Biganon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where this idea came from (I've seen it on reddit a LOT), but it's the same here in Switzerland: you do it yourself because the tax department has no idea how much you made precisely, what you can deduce from it (expenses you had to do in order to acquire your income), etc. It just makes more sense to have everyone manage their own taxes.

The IRS already has most of your income information and much of your deduction information. They already use this to validate if your return makes sense. In effect, the IRS already does most of a taxpayer's paperwork. Since they do this, it might be nice to provide it to taxpayers for review and correction, rather than making us all start from zero each time.

> and much of your deduction information

No, no they don't. At most they have your mortgage interest deduction - side hustle expenses, charitable contributions, etc. are not reported to the IRS automatically.