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Killing TurboTax

kunle.app

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Re: Killing TurboTax

#101

Post by jorblumesea »

motbob wrote: post #80
sgwealti wrote: post #6

Or the IRS could file our taxes for us for free.

The IRS can simplify the process, sure. And if you are living alone, have no children, and don't care about taking advantage of any special credits or deductions, then a "file for me" button would be fine. (Though the process for those taxpayers is already in a good place--I filed my taxes for free in about 30 minutes this year.) But if you, say, have children, the IRS will not be able to "file for you" in any meanin…

Most countries have their version of the IRS "file for you" without any of those difficulties. Everyone reports tax information to the central authority which determines how much you owe. Even complex things like 1099-B, 1099-Div etc. Which is how the current system works anyways, it just eliminates the hassle.

There's almost no scenario where the IRS cannot do this stuff. Think about this fact: your W-2, 1099 investments and most other financial information is already reported to the IRS. They have it already. Absolutely bonkers that people accept anything less than just being sent a bill or check once a year.

> Right now, the system we have is pretty good.

Yeah, big disagree there. If you've ever done taxes in another country you will realize how idiotic taxes are in the US. Australia is literally, 10 minutes per year, and even complex things like investments, stocks...

Re: Killing TurboTax

#102

Post by chrisseaton »

Are accountants prohibitively expensive in the US? I don't use any tax software myself in the UK - I just pay an accountant $250 once a year and he does it for me (using some software I presume.) It's not really on my radar as things worth trying to automate or use software myself for, let alone building my own software! I'd have to be able to do it in just a few hours to be cost effective.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#103

Post by somehnguy »

coldpie wrote: post #86
somehnguy wrote: post #75

TurboTax is disgusting. I used them for a few years in the past due to their great marketing and easy to use website. But they pulled a bait & switch on me last year, at the last minute (after I had done everything) I was required to pay north of $120 to actually file. The problem isn't that they want money to use their software, it's that they're not upfront about it. Free is thrown in your face about 100 times duri…

If your taxes are super simple, you can use the IRS's free fillable forms: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... You basically type your numbers in and it does the math for you. Then you print it out and mail it in. It can't do anything complex, though. In my experience (Minnesota), state filing is even easier, usually just copying numbers from your federal form and doing one table lookup. N…

Thank you, that actually appears to be much more user friendly than I would have imagined. When I think of government websites I think I'm still stuck in the mindset of government websites 10 years ago (aka absolutely horrible). I've been surprised at how good things have gotten regarding them a few times, so I guess I need to snap out of that mindset.

While looking over the requirements and supported forms I didn't find anything about student loans (form 1098E), would you happen to know if that method is compatible with them?

Re: Killing TurboTax

#104

Post by runako »

motbob wrote: post #80
sgwealti wrote: post #6

Or the IRS could file our taxes for us for free.

The IRS can simplify the process, sure. And if you are living alone, have no children, and don't care about taking advantage of any special credits or deductions, then a "file for me" button would be fine. (Though the process for those taxpayers is already in a good place--I filed my taxes for free in about 30 minutes this year.) But if you, say, have children, the IRS will not be able to "file for you" in any meanin…

I came here to write something along these lines. For the simplest cases, filing is free and really easy now. Everyone who needs TurboTax now would need something roughly as complicated until our entire tax regime is overhauled.

Adding to the types of really common situations where you do have to provide context the IRS doesn't already have:

- side-hustle contracting (IRS doesn't know what expenditures are for the business)

- stock sales (your broker may not know your basis)

- home improvements eligible for tax deductions

- sold a home (IRS won't know your basis or selling price)

- did you move for a job? IRS won't know whether you are eligible for tax deductions.

- crypto gains/losses

- inheritances (basis again)

I'm curious whether other countries have simpler tax codes that permit simpler filing?

Re: Killing TurboTax

#105

Post by gambiting »

Biganon wrote: post #40
sgwealti wrote: post #6

Or the IRS could file our taxes for us for free.

I don't know where this idea came from (I've seen it on reddit a LOT), but it's the same here in Switzerland: you do it yourself because the tax department has no idea how much you made precisely, what you can deduce from it (expenses you had to do in order to acquire your income), etc. It just makes more sense to have everyone manage their own taxes.

In the UK vast majority of people don't do their own taxes. Your employer pays the tax on your behalf directly from your salary and updates the tax office as to how much you make. In turn, the tax office tells your employer how much tax to pay from your salary, without any input required from yourself.

In fact most people I work with don't even know there is such a thing as a tax deadline every year or anything like that, because....why would they? if you are a normal full time employee there is absolutely no need to file your own taxes. HMRC has all the information it needs to tax you year on year.

>>what you can deduce from it (expenses you had to do in order to acquire your income)

Well, at least here in UK there's practically nothing you can deduct from your taxes if you are a "regular" full time worker, so that solves that issue.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#106

Post by sib »

nicoburns wrote: post #87
Finnucane wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turbotax et al. lobby heavily to prevent this. Given that much of the relevant information--W2s, 1099s, etc., are already reported, you'd think that this would be easier for a very large percentage of taxpayers. But it would effectively kill TurboTax's business.

Couldn't the legislators just... not do what the lobbyists want? Are they really all that corrupt?

The economist's answer:

If that were so, there wouldn't be so much money spent on lobbyists by companies.

I guess there's a reason they call it "the dismal science."

Re: Killing TurboTax

#107

Post by ghaff »

kraig wrote: post #42
sgwealti wrote: post #6

Or the IRS could file our taxes for us for free.

yes, because i want someone in the irs to evaluate all of my deductions and donations

They'd just assume you want to take the standard deduction--which isn't a bad assumption for a lot of people these days.

My taxes are admittedly at least somewhat complex but, even if I did them myself, I'm not sure how much effort it would save if I had to do a bunch of additions and corrections. Pre-filling would mostly be useful if you could just check your W2, maybe a 1099, some things like dependents, sign it, and file it.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#108

Post by klmadfejno »

aphextron wrote: post #5

What exactly does everyone have against Turbotax? I use it every year and I love it. Sure I could save a hundred bucks and spend hours filling out IRS worksheets, but I don't want to. They have excellent UX, and serve as a reliable secure cloud repository for all of my financial information. What's the big deal?

Last year turbo tax said I could file for free. Every so often it asked if I wanted to upgrade to a deluxe version for $70. I said no. After a couple hours of filling everything out, it told me that my income, from one of the first steps, was too high so I would need to pay $70. Deeply unethical to tell me that at the end when they had the information necessary to do so at the beginning.

Also, fuck them for charging $70 while lobbying for taxes to remain difficult to file.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#109

Post by Uehreka »

coldpie wrote: post #72
xrd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> please don't use this software to file your taxes for the 2020 / 2021 tax season. I wonder if there is a PR that Intuit filed to add this to the readme. Seriously, I wonder how much money Intuit has spent to terrify people into using their software. Each year, I look around for alternatives so I can avoid giving them money, and each year I find some reason to grow fearful of an IRS audit and go with the company tha…

Unless you really screw up[1], or are intentionally trying to screw the IRS[2], you don't have to worry about an audit. The IRS's goal isn't to bring down their wrath upon you, their goal is to accurately collect the taxes they are due. If you pay too little, they'll ask you to pay the difference. If you pay too much, they'll refund it. Really: I once used the single-payer tax table instead of the filing-jointly tax…

IANAL, or an accountant, etc, but if I’ve learned anything from ravenously consuming Trump family news the past few years, it’s that ignorance of the law actually is a defense in cases around taxes, and the IRS has to satisfy a standard of proving bad intent in order to really screw you.

Again, IANAL, do your taxes, please. But it does seem like the system is legitimately designed with an ethos of just making sure taxes get collected and isn’t about being vindictive.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#110

Post by agloeregrets »

somehnguy wrote: post #75

TurboTax is disgusting. I used them for a few years in the past due to their great marketing and easy to use website. But they pulled a bait & switch on me last year, at the last minute (after I had done everything) I was required to pay north of $120 to actually file. The problem isn't that they want money to use their software, it's that they're not upfront about it. Free is thrown in your face about 100 times duri…

Thats exactly what I got that I felt like the Article didnt seem to get.

Turbo Tax is required to abide by the FreeFile rules. this means that for some customers their software is required to be free.

By some customers I mean like 60%.

So TurboTax moved to seeing their product as an upsell game, start at free and UHOH! You have to pay us! To that they dont have to be upfront because they 'Didn't know you made too much'.

Now, this is where things get fun. How does TurboTax get you to pay? Three ways: 1. Have your info on file so you don't need to enter it. 2. Make sure to place the payment step at the VERY end of the process when you are deep into the system and offer ways to pay it via your return. 3. Agressive UI and UI dark patterns to make the software appear to work harder and be more trustworthy and to make you feel as if you put in more involvement. There are numarous animations stating things like 'Verifing your maximum money back' and such that are all false loading screens. It all makes the customer trust it more while it's just wasting their time.

TurboTax is a bait and switch company that for many is free and makes their customer feel like they did the work. You can't compete with that concept by offering an automatic engine with no involvement becasue the customer will think it's wrong or they are being screwed and any upfront cost to cover development will make the customer think your product costs more.

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