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"My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

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Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#21

Post by darkxanthos »

larrik wrote: post #3

I think he's right. In college, my CS 2 class was taught by a professor very different than the rest of the teachers there. He wanted all of your programming assignments on paper[1]. Then, you'd get it back with every possible bug marked in your program, and he very rarely missed any[2]. That was the first time in college I thought "I really need to learn how to do that!" I went to a state school, so maybe all you gu…

I agree as well. I've noticed that in ALL problems, once I establish a solid consistent language around the feature I'm building, the programming part is easy. This is true even on complex problems. Its very rare to have a problem I can talk about in detail that is not easily solvable.

I've also noticed that peers struggling with implementing solutions usually have an inconsistent language.

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#22

Post by 6ren »

dchest wrote: post #19
6ren wrote: post #5

So what's good example code? Sadly (and tellingly) it's not necessarily the most successful code (success comes from meeting user needs, not from good code), but how else can you judge it, apart from reading it. This is made worse because it's hard to tell if code is necessarily complex without understanding the problem it solves, which may be complex. Further, if you don't yet know what good code is, how can you rec…

Sadly (and tellingly) it's not necessarily the most successful code (success comes from meeting user needs, not from good code), but how else can you judge it, apart from reading it. Schools have suggested reading lists. Do they have the same for code reading ? Fortunately, on the Internet, we have experienced people to help us: http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22good+cod...

> [suggested code reading lists]

That's a good idea, but I haven't heard of one. I think the best thing is just to read a lot of code, good and bad.

BTW did you check the result of that search?

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#23

Post by mparr4 »

To have good taste is one thing (the ability to recognize good from bad) but to be able to produce good work is another. As many good writers (and the author of this post) suggest, the best way to get better at writing is to read good writing and to write more. This method (of observing masters at work and practicing the craft yourself) works for many disciplines. Should it be surprising that it applies to hacking as well?

The post reminded me of an Ira Glass interview where he comments on having good "taste" (5 min) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI23U7U2aUY which in turn reminds me of PGs essay "Great Hackers" http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html Good stuff!!

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#25

Post by DasIch »

Watchmannen wrote: post #2

Actually the article is missing one thing. Yes, you need to be able to express yourself in the (programming) language. But, and here is the thing, the hard part is not learning the words and the grammar, nor actually writing in the language using the said words and grammar. No the hard problem is figuring out WHAT to say and HOW say it to make others (humans or computers, depending if it is a natural or programming l…

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#27

Post by MediaBehavior »

wccrawford wrote: post #7

Programming isn't about writing. It's about logic. It's a series of instructions for a computer to follow. The old 'write down how to tie shoes' or 'write down how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich' projects show just how hard it can be to pin down exactly what needs to be done to do seemingly simple tasks. The writing is merely how to you transmit the logic.

And is not (good) writing also about logic - even though sometimes it's fuzzy or the (twisted) logic of human psychology?

Writing requires "logicking out" the likely responses of the reader - and the pseudologic of parsing by the human brain (see Dan Ariely's "Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces that Shape Our Decisions").

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#28

Post by misuse-permit »

This is a decent analogy, but still I cringe whenever I hear someone comparing computer languages to spoken ones.

They are nothing alike, and I would be honestly surprised if we even used the same part of our brain for processing the grammars of human languages as we do for the rigid, formal computer ones.

If this were true, how come not all great programmers are great writers? Why don't more great programmers become fluent in other spoken languages?

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#29

Post by DasIch »

I find it fascinating that Python seems to be the only language which created a word to describe idiomatic code: pythonic.

Having learned Python as a first programming language I always try to gain an idiomatic understanding of the language which allows myself to think in Python.

Re: "My current theory is that programming is quite literally writing."

#30

Post by dchest »

6ren wrote: post #22
dchest wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly (and tellingly) it's not necessarily the most successful code (success comes from meeting user needs, not from good code), but how else can you judge it, apart from reading it. Schools have suggested reading lists. Do they have the same for code reading ? Fortunately, on the Internet, we have experienced people to help us: http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22good+cod...

> [suggested code reading lists] That's a good idea, but I haven't heard of one. I think the best thing is just to read a lot of code, good and bad. BTW did you check the result of that search?

BTW did you check the result of that search?

Haha, just skimmed through it, sorry. I remember threads on this topic, but it seems like HN search for this request failed to find them.

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