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Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

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Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#91

Post by hnedeotes »

matwood wrote: post #43
gspr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the people who claim that 16 GB isn't enough are insane, but it should be said: at 4 GB it does become a bit problematic to both keep browsers with a bunch of tabs open and do other things smoothly. If we keep modern website hogs out of the picture, I completely agree with you. I tally about 500-1000 MB doing my job – if I can close the browsers that I do admittedly need to read documentation.

> I think the people who claim that 16 GB isn't enough are insane The problem is containers. Some development workflows appear to require running a container for every piece of software needed, and that adds up (and feels incredibly wasteful). None of my development workflow requires containers locally, so I get by just fine with 16gb.

Yeah, containers or VM's up the count indeed, but still. 2 Parallels (test version for m1) VMs running server ubuntu, 1 with 2 ssh connections, for X and tunnelling, running emacs into my desktop, running a web server with repl and environment, other running Postgresql. Safari with 8 tabs open, 4 terminal windows, Xquartz, tells me the biggest memory footprint is the vm with emacs/server/repl, at 3.9GB followed by the other VM at 2.8GB, but the overall used mem says 6GB used(?).

From the tabs Gmail was pointing to +1GB - a browser email client consuming +1/3 of the memory a VM running an OS plus a database.

I sometimes have another VM, another 2 ssh conns, more tabs open including youtube and never noticed any slow/sluggish behaviour.

I also feel like running VMs is wasteful, but it seems we are not able to create OSes with proper native tools for isolation.

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#92

Post by hnedeotes »

gspr wrote: post #45
matwood wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the people who claim that 16 GB isn't enough are insane The problem is containers. Some development workflows appear to require running a container for every piece of software needed, and that adds up (and feels incredibly wasteful). None of my development workflow requires containers locally, so I get by just fine with 16gb.

I wonder when the pendulum will swing back and people will stop this insanity. I can already picture the buzzwords people will invent to describe "apps running on the OS itself ".

On the other hand it's no insanity to run millions of lines of code in a computer, connected to the internet and hopefully sharing all the projects you need to work with and dependencies you need to make them work, with full access to your filesystem, usually requiring administrator rights to be installed or even used.

This would all be needless if there was an OS that allowed you to switch to another "env" wiping the RAM in the process (like, storing a snapshot of it for when you switch back), with guaranteed isolation at the filesystem level (perhaps able to still read-only link into common libs), able to install things without touching other "envs". If you're working in any webdev related environment, that is itself the definition of insanity.

It's like buying a hammer from the carpenter at the end of the road and giving access to all your house to him in the process, including your wife. Everything becomes a nail.

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#93

Post by emilecantin »

skohan wrote: post #69
OldHand2018 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone needs 32GB then they need 32GB. The M1 is Apple’s low-end chip, currently available only on their cheapest computers. It’s like complaining that a Corolla can’t keep up with a Ferrari on a race track. The most charitable interpretation is that the person doesn’t understand the market position of the two items.

I’m just asking what would be a use case where you would actually need this

I never close Chrome tabs.

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#94

Post by ece »

csunbird wrote: post #46
pengaru wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine memory will be quite constrained here for a lot of M1 systems. No worries, the storage is fast enough to stand-in for RAM via swap! You always wanted your RAM to be a wear item, right?

Definitely, especially when it is soldered to the motherboard or into the chip itself. /s

Computers increase productivity, so E-Waste is no big deal. /s

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#95

Post by gspr »

hnedeotes wrote: post #92
gspr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when the pendulum will swing back and people will stop this insanity. I can already picture the buzzwords people will invent to describe "apps running on the OS itself ".

On the other hand it's no insanity to run millions of lines of code in a computer, connected to the internet and hopefully sharing all the projects you need to work with and dependencies you need to make them work, with full access to your filesystem, usually requiring administrator rights to be installed or even used. This would all be needless if there was an OS that allowed you to switch to another "env" wiping th…

Maybe I'm just a simplistic person, but classical Linux distributions make this problem non-existing for 99% of what goes on in my world.

Their role is precisely to orchestrate the cooperation and interdepndency of those millions of lines of code. I don't understand why people have started turning those distros into glorified delivery vehicles for containers.

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#96

Post by GeekyBear »

cozzyd wrote: post #3

I imagine memory will be quite constrained here for a lot of M1 systems.

The M1x benchmarks that recently leaked show that it supports 32 Gigs of RAM, has twice the number of big CPU cores, and twice the GPU cores.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-pro-m1x-benchmarks-ju...

It should be adequate for a non-entry level laptop.

One of the fairly accurate Apple leakers, Jon Prosser, has said that one of his proven sources has informed him that the leak is legit.

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#97

Post by hnedeotes »

gspr wrote: post #95
hnedeotes wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand it's no insanity to run millions of lines of code in a computer, connected to the internet and hopefully sharing all the projects you need to work with and dependencies you need to make them work, with full access to your filesystem, usually requiring administrator rights to be installed or even used. This would all be needless if there was an OS that allowed you to switch to another "env" wiping th…

Maybe I'm just a simplistic person, but classical Linux distributions make this problem non-existing for 99% of what goes on in my world. Their role is precisely to orchestrate the cooperation and interdepndency of those millions of lines of code. I don't understand why people have started turning those distros into glorified delivery vehicles for containers.

Simplistic is actually good - but I don't think that any (?) of the available current OSes is able to contain a program that can run once as administrator right? If I'm not recalling it incorrectly, BSD jails, linux cgroups, user filesystem permission, docker, vm's - and that's at the surface.

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#98

Post by jhoechtl »

skohan wrote: post #57
_gqhf wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good for you and I'm glad you're happy but for some of us, considering the work with are doing, sometimes even 32GB is not really enough. Different people, different needs.

What do you need 32GB for? Video editing? ML training on CPU? I have to imagine this is a minority.

Running a Filecoin full node. Mind you, not mining, just verifying.

https://docs.filecoin.io/get-started/lotus/installation/#min...

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#99

Post by lars-b2018 »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #70

I like the attitude of author of this gist. Just make it work. My own practical practice is to use both a very fine System76 Linux laptop and also a super fast, if constrained, M1 MacBook Pro. Depends on what I am doing, or sometimes just what I feel like using. To be perfectly open though, I had considered switching to just using Linux until the M1 was released. The thing that held me back was spending $3500 on a co…

I use Common Lisp daily on macOS and Linux, but use SBCL and Emacs with Sly. Never tried out a commercial implementation so I cannot compare to Emacs and SBCL. Are they worth the money vs. the open source tools?

Re: Linux Desktop on Apple Silicon/M1 in Practice

#100

Post by stjohnswarts »

emilecantin wrote: post #93
skohan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just asking what would be a use case where you would actually need this

I never close Chrome tabs.

That's fine, it's not like it keeps them all open, i've had a couple hundred tabs open in Firefox while researching a project using tree style tab to organize them. Modern browsers cache pages to disk after a certain high water mark. People actually seem to think all those tabs stay in memory.
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