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On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

cs.princeton.edu

121–130 of 232 posts

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#121

Why can't Bitcoin simply transition to proof of stake after mining dries up? Once there are few or no bitcoins left to mine then PoW is a lot of ceremony for very little security gain at that point (and perhaps opens up risks that this paper points out).

Btc is what it it is because it is NOT centralized.

pos = centralization risk.

pos = shitcoin.

If you want to read in depth: https://voskuil.org/cryptoeconomics/cryptoeconomics.pdf.

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we need a heavy Carbon Tax on Proof of Work cryptocurrencies. Using the energy consumption of Argentina to verify financial transactions does not fit with moving to a Net Zero economy.

Gaming uses more energy than Bitcoin. Shall we place carbon taxes on gaming too? How about a carbon tax on Gold and Silver, and on the whole of the banking system, which also consume more energy than Bitcoin? In any case, feel free to contact the Bitcoin CEO and discuss your ideas on how to implement those taxes.

Except you're wrong and all those things consume far less power than bitcoin. That's the entire point.

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this comment with interest, thanks for sharing. Makes good sense to me. If I may ask, do you think the distribution of bitcoin will be somewhat equitable as we approach 2140? And do you you think it will actually become a medium of exchange as originally hoped? Or will it remain a store of wealth only (as things currently seem to indicate)? And if it indeed remains only a store of wealth, will said wealth be d…

>do you think the distribution of bitcoin will be somewhat equitable as we approach 2140 I don’t see why the distribution of anything would be “equitable”, outside of a communist utopia/dystopia. These days that word is mostly used by people exploiting the empathy of others to gain power for themselves.

Exactly. I came here to say this, but you've said it quite eloquently.

I'll just add that some inequality is also a good thing. If you don't have differential outcomes then you don't have a meritocracy where "better" is rewarded. You have a system where everyone is equally poor like the USSR and there is no incentive to improve.

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#125
post #113
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for them there are better alternatives to BTC, one being BCH for example

BCH is trending to 0 in BTC. How does this solve Venezuelans or Lebanese store of value problem? https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/BCHBTC/

That is because BTC extremely unstable, which is good for speculation but not for a currency

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#126

Why can't Bitcoin simply transition to proof of stake after mining dries up? Once there are few or no bitcoins left to mine then PoW is a lot of ceremony for very little security gain at that point (and perhaps opens up risks that this paper points out).

The bitcoin community is at a general consensus that PoS is inherently insecure

It is without a doubt the only thing they can agree on.

... well except for these guys https://www.bitcoinpos.net/

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming uses more energy than Bitcoin. Shall we place carbon taxes on gaming too? How about a carbon tax on Gold and Silver, and on the whole of the banking system, which also consume more energy than Bitcoin? In any case, feel free to contact the Bitcoin CEO and discuss your ideas on how to implement those taxes.

Except you're wrong and all those things consume far less power than bitcoin. That's the entire point.

No they don't.

Gaming is the sole demand for all consoles and GPUs produced in the world. Those devices alone consume a lot more energy than Bitcoin miners (by about an order of magnitude).

Gold and Silver are extremely expensive to mine energy-wise.

The banking system is amazingly expensive to run. Not only it requires lots of buildings and transportation for millions of workers, it also requires a lot of computing resources to be run -- without even guaranteeing you can withdraw your money from banks, and with your money there being corroded due to inflation.

Bitcoin, in comparison, is actually pretty "green" once you consider the value it provides: a distributed ledger with 10+ years of operation and no flaws/attacks detected, meaning it's the safest store of value known to mankind, while not being under any control of any organization or government.

In any case, even if your point that Bitcoin is "evil" as it requires "too much energy to run" is true, what are you going to do about it? Feel free to short Bitcoin in a futures market, and leave all your wealth allocated in assets associated to fiat currencies.

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#128
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's supported by both logic and experience. It's easy to see logically if we flip the relationship. If house prices are steadily increasing (equivalent to inflation, where my purchasing power is decreasing), I want to convert my money into a house as quickly as possible. If house prices are decreasing (equivalent to deflation, where my purchasing power is increasing), I want to hold off as long as possible. In recen…

Sounds good to me, if you don‘t buy the house because your money is not devalued consistently. House buyers might actually get more use out of it than holding their money, instead of just (or in part) buying it for monetary reasons

I'm on board with your socialist sensibilities when it comes to housing - but when the same effect is occurring throughout the entire economy the result is a depression.

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you're wrong and all those things consume far less power than bitcoin. That's the entire point.

No they don't. Gaming is the sole demand for all consoles and GPUs produced in the world. Those devices alone consume a lot more energy than Bitcoin miners (by about an order of magnitude). Gold and Silver are extremely expensive to mine energy-wise. The banking system is amazingly expensive to run. Not only it requires lots of buildings and transportation for millions of workers, it also requires a lot of computing…

> Gaming is the sole demand for all consoles and GPUs

Well, no, mining cryptocurrency is a significant source of GPU demand; GPUs also have non-gaming, non-cryptocurrency utility.

Re: On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward [pdf]

#130

Sounds like its based on a flawed assumption: "Now, immediately after a block is found, there will be no more transactions in the network to be claimed by a miner making the next block" The fact is there is usually a large backlog of transactions.

The large backlog these days is mostly spam transactions with almost no fees. Bitcoin has increased capacity dramatically in the past decade.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc.html

Make note of the inflection point around 2016. Yeah, it's right around the time your capacity chart starts looking like a wet noodle.

Yeah, that's when a few your scumbag BTC devs removed Gavin Andresen's commit access and killed BTC's last chance of becomming a real currency.

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