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Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

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Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#791

Post by mike_d »

wyre wrote: post #692
mike_d wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the worlds meat is raised in areas where forests do not naturally develop. If all natural meat consumption stopped tomorrow, Brazilians would cut down forests to grow whatever is needed for fake meat. The problem is land is one of the few economically exploitable natural resources the country has to sustain itself.

Brazilians are currently cutting down forests to grow crops for cattle feed. Plant based meat uses less resources than beef so I would call that a win in my book.

You seem to have missed the important part of my comment.

If you tell an Iowa corn farmer than he can't grow corn anymore, he doesn't just give up and let his land turn in to prairie. He will grow soy, or raise pigs, or whatever else monetizes the land.

Brazilians will keep cutting down forests because they depend on the land for income. They ultimately don't care what the deforestation is for, only that it feeds their family.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#792

Post by ant6n »

leadingthenet wrote: post #322
hamax wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the cow.

The cow wouldn't even exist if it weren't useful to us. Let's treat them as humanely as possible, while not pretending they're something they're not. If you want to help animals, let's tackle the issue of rewilding and reforestation more seriously.

I like meat, but this argument is wonky. Domesticated animals displace wild ones, because they take away the habitat.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#793

Post by wooger »

mikepurvis wrote: post #34
DamnYuppie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the methane issue. Historically worldwide the # of ungulates is probably well below historical averages. It looks like today we have around 98 million head of cattle in the US. Historically we had bison in excess of conservatively 60 million. This doesn't even begin to count all the animals in Africa. Overall wide life is declining. https://www.statista.com/statistics/194297/total-number-of-c…

> large mammal farts going on now is probably not that much higher than it always has been I believe a big part of it has to do with the feedlot diet— when they're eating a high-calorie diet of mostly corn/grain instead of their natural diet of grass, it puts their digestive system into overdrive. EDIT: I looked into it a bit more after posting this, and it looks like it's not clear-cut— for example, it takes a cow a…

They are constantly feeding the grass with their poo.

Re-generative agriculture using a variety of animal grazing in rotation is more efficient and better for wildlife and the planet than any monocrop vegetable field will every be.

Organic agriculture only works with large amounts of animal dung.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#794

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

nearbuy wrote: post #603
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. The way I think of it, pigs are very intelligent, more intelligent than dogs. However, humans are more intelligent. If pigs were more intelligent, pigs would eat humans. And that's not a figure of speech. Pig would eat us if they could. They wouldn't stop and think, gee, does this little baby human girl cry because it doesn't want to be eaten, maybe…

I think you're saying that, 1. Pigs would do bad things to us if they were different than they actually are (smarter) 2. Therefore pigs aren't very moral 3. It's okay for us to hurt beings that aren't very moral I don't think any of that is true. The first problem is you're justifying cruelty to pigs based on a crime they haven't even committed, but you assume they would if they were as advanced as humans. I can imag…

I'm sorry, but that's not what I'm saying. In particular, I'm not saying that pigs aren't very moral because they'd eat us, because I don't think it's immoral to eat another animal.

I also certainly do not justify in cruelty to pigs, or any other animals, in any way, shape or form. Animals should be killed in a way that causes the least suffering possible.

>> I can imagine a slave owner in the 1800s using the same type of rationalization. "If black people were smarter and more advanced than us, they'd have made us slaves", he'd say. "They would do it to us, so we do it to them."

You are comparing me to a slave owner?

The difference of course here is that black people are just as smart as whites.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#795

Post by wooger »

ricardobayes wrote: post #732
reedjosh wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same happens when humans switch to a largely corn diet. Corn and wheat (maybe just grains) just don't seam healthy. If I had to drop meat, I'd primarily eat beans/legumes.

That's why only Europe has its cuisine based on grains. All other regions base their cuisine on either potatoes or rice.

Erm, what? Rice is a grain. What do you think they eat in the rest of the world exactly?

Pretty sure the Americas & Africa & half of Asia are rather fond of Wheat anyway.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#796

Post by HenryBemis »

drewg123 wrote: post #2

This is the best news I've heard all week. The more widely vegan "meat" is available, the more likely it is to be adopted by average people and not just dedicated vegans. Reducing the demand for real beef is probably one of the best things we can do in the short term for the environment, due to the amount of land required for cattle farming, and due to the surprising amount of methane emitted by cattle. (see the docu…

Marketing-wise, I remember reading about the Oil industry heavily advertising on the benefits of plastic RECYCLING, which helped remove the guilt on oil extraction and plastic production, thus helping the large growth in the business[0]. (APOLOGIES for the below sporadic CAPS - I really have to learn how to write bold/italics in HN)

I see the ethical and environmental benefits of eating meat without killing an animal. This makes me wonder the following:

-is this to ensure meat-eaters continue to eat meat (for their benefit) without the suffering of animals?

-is this to ensure that we eat cleaner/healthier/disease-free meat? [1]

-is this to industrialise meat production further with a smaller harmful footprint?

-is this to SELL TO VEGANS? (expand the customer base?). If I can break down the vegetarians/vegans into two categories: a) Those who don't want to eat meat because they prefer a plant-based diet (by choice, medical reasons, etc.) and b) Those who do it for ethical reasons - 'meat is murder'.

-is this to SELL TO various RELIGIONS FOLLOWERS? I am thinking that around 2-3-4bn people do NOT eat a certain type of meat (or another)(pork, beef) for religious reasons. Imagine selling 'non-beef beef burgers' to 1.5bn people in India, 'non-pork bacon' to 2-3bn Muslims, etc.

-how will 'permissible' (halal) meat consumers be affected by this? The 'halal' process defines a ritual that is not possile. Will religion follow/adapt?

[0]: https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-... [1]: https://www.motherjones.com/food/2015/08/poop-ground-beef-su... (I was trying to remember the movie.. but I couldn't..)

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#797

Post by shafyy »

drewg123 wrote: post #2

This is the best news I've heard all week. The more widely vegan "meat" is available, the more likely it is to be adopted by average people and not just dedicated vegans. Reducing the demand for real beef is probably one of the best things we can do in the short term for the environment, due to the amount of land required for cattle farming, and due to the surprising amount of methane emitted by cattle. (see the docu…

Pardon me for hijacking the top comment, but I see so much wrong information here that I want to address:

1) Direct emissions from livestock

Yes, direct emissions from livestock are around 15% of all GHG emissions globally, and less than that in the US or most developed countries. That's because a lot of developed countries "import" emissions by buying cheap meat from livestock agriculture intensive coutries

2) Direct emissions are just the tip of the iceberg, though

The bigger threats from livestock agriculture are land use and loss of biodiversity.

Today, around 45% of usable land is used for or by livestock [1]. That's nuts. That land has something called the "opportunity cost of carbon" - meaning how much carbon could be sequestrated there by natural vegetation if it wasn't used for livestock. And that's a lot. One study that was published in Nature estimated that: "[...] finding that shifts in global food production to plant-based diets by 2050 could lead to sequestration of 332–547 GtCO2, equivalent to 99–163% of the CO2 emissions budget consistent with a 66% chance of limiting warming to 1.5 °C [2]

Biodiversity is a separate issue than climate change (mostly), but if we start fucking it up more its consequences will be more dire, and it's not on the public's mind currently. Today, 60% of all mammals are cows. Only 4% of all mammals are wild life [3]. Let that sink in. Disturbing habitats of species, planting monocultures and changing the balance of biodiversity leads to the extinction of a lot of species. Humans are at the top of the food chain, and starting to erase species further downstream will lead to non-linear events that will endanger us. And don't get me started about zoonotic diseases.

3) Holistic grazing

One comment mentioned that it's better to have cattle on land that's considered "marginal" than not having cattle, arguing that having cattle actually sequestrates more carbon than it emits. Of course, this is total bullshit or we would have some sort of cow pertuum mobile. This sort of livestock agriculture is often referred to "holistic grazing" and is more a cult movement than something rooted in science. Their "research" is often debunked by scientific studies [4].

It's always better to eat plants directly than to process it through a cow or chicken or goat. That's just basics physics.

Sources: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00603-4.epdf?shar...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-ra...

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijbd/2014/163431/

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#798

Post by wooger »

arnoooooo wrote: post #753
twobitshifter wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corn consumed by cattle includes the corn stalks which are more or less the same as consuming grass. Corn is after all in the grass family. The actual kernels of corn increase the calories versus grass, but it’s not like cows are just eating corn off the cob all day long. They need to consume tons of roughage to help with their digestion. I think a good argument is that converting grain and grass to beef is ineff…

It's also that there's no ecosystem in factory farming. There are methane consuming bacteria in meadows.

Same for monocrop fields of Soy beans, doused in pesticides & chemical fertiliser.

There is a better way all around, with a mixture of animals and crops. And you very much need the animal dung to fertilise if we're talking about doing anything postive for the environment.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#799

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

Falling3 wrote: post #432
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. The way I think of it, pigs are very intelligent, more intelligent than dogs. However, humans are more intelligent. If pigs were more intelligent, pigs would eat humans. And that's not a figure of speech. Pig would eat us if they could. They wouldn't stop and think, gee, does this little baby human girl cry because it doesn't want to be eaten, maybe…

I hear this kind of reasoning often, but I don't believe anyone is willing to apply it outside of food. Yes, many non-human animals would eat you if given the opportunity. Some species of large cats might also kill you for amusement. Does that fact justify you doing the same? Many animals might try to copulate with you. Does that justify bestiality? And if you're comfortable with moral arguments based on reciprocity,…

>> Yes, many non-human animals would eat you if given the opportunity. Some species of large cats might also kill you for amusement. Does that fact justify you doing the same? Many animals might try to copulate with you. Does that justify bestiality?

What's missing is a good reason to kill or copulate. There are good reasons to kill an animal in order to eat it, in fact that's the reason, to eat it. There are no good reasons to kill... er, well, without good reason... "for amusement" - exactly what is amusing about killing an animal? I certainly wouldn't find it amusing _at all_.

As to bestiality that is er, ugh, yuck. Again, I don't see the good reason. Bleagh.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#800

Post by wooger »

jdavis703 wrote: post #49
DamnYuppie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly don't understand the methane issue. Historically worldwide the # of ungulates is probably well below historical averages. It looks like today we have around 98 million head of cattle in the US. Historically we had bison in excess of conservatively 60 million. This doesn't even begin to count all the animals in Africa. Overall wide life is declining. https://www.statista.com/statistics/194297/total-number-of-c…

It’s not just cow farts. Raising and killing a whole cow is an inefficient way to extract calories from plants. Even chicken would be more efficient.

We can't eat grass. In my country cattle eat grass.
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