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Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

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Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#91

Post by RHSman2 »

haswell wrote: post #63
surround wrote: post #61

Let’s say there’s a Facebook group of moms that enjoy using essential oils. Imagine that a study gets posted to the group showing that essential oils are ineffective at treating some disease. If I made a comment in that community about how, in my anecdotal experience, essential oils cured me of this disease, it would probably be supported over the study. Now, instead of essential oils, let’s say I did the same thing…

There are studies and growing consensus that psilocybin can have positive/therapeutic effects. Are you trying to imply that the same is true for essential oils? This seems like a false equivalency/strawman situation.

ahhh, the old 'growing consensus'

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#92

Post by mikkelam »

surround wrote: post #61

Let’s say there’s a Facebook group of moms that enjoy using essential oils. Imagine that a study gets posted to the group showing that essential oils are ineffective at treating some disease. If I made a comment in that community about how, in my anecdotal experience, essential oils cured me of this disease, it would probably be supported over the study. Now, instead of essential oils, let’s say I did the same thing…

I love this reply. It's really hard to argue against. Every human like to think that we are smarter than others, what WE are doing is not a placebo, that only happens to those other ones, because my experience was real and I felt it.

It is really tough to admit to yourself and others that what your felt wasn't some magical experience, it was just your brain making it up.

I would quote Albus Dumbledore here though: “Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#93

Post by im3w1l »

surround wrote: post #61

Let’s say there’s a Facebook group of moms that enjoy using essential oils. Imagine that a study gets posted to the group showing that essential oils are ineffective at treating some disease. If I made a comment in that community about how, in my anecdotal experience, essential oils cured me of this disease, it would probably be supported over the study. Now, instead of essential oils, let’s say I did the same thing…

Your argument is worthy of consideration, but ultimately I think there is a difference. The difference is trying something unproven vs something that has already been tested and discredited.

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#94

Post by im3w1l »

mhh__ wrote: post #62
subsubsub wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're sharing unverifiable anecdotes about LSD, then I have one... A friends mother took LSD in the 80s and still gets nightmare flashbacks. Stay safe kids.

Maybe if you have a particularly bad trip but everyone seems to have these horror stories and yet no one is one e.g. it's like the teacher saying about how the kid who leant too far back on his chair fell over and cracked his head open

It reminds me of something I read here the other week, one third of Americans know someone who died of coronavirus. So telling stories about what happened to a friend works as a sort of "probability amplifier": it only takes one event for a lot of people to have a happened-to-a-friend story.

And that's before we even take into account the risk of mistelling that increases with second-hand information.

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#95

Post by eurasiantiger »

generalizations wrote: post #82
Talanes wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the realm of unverifiable anecdotes, there is still a difference between a first party anecdote and a third-party anecdote. In the first party anecdote I only have to put my trust in one person, where in a third party anecdote I have to trust 2-to-infinity people. For whatever reason, negative anecdotes seem to be overwhelmingly third person, at the very least all the ones in this thread have been.

> negative anecdotes seem to be overwhelmingly third person Based on the anecdotes in this thread, I'm getting the impression that when you have a really bad trip, you don't make it back to tell the story in the first person. The only people left to tell are the observers.

That’s preposterous.

Are you a stock shill trying to devalue the rising psychedelic industry or something?

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#96

Post by eurasiantiger »

pas wrote: post #89
eurasiantiger wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You base that judgment on a single study of N=191 that employs a non-rigorous methodology which does not control for the purity or even existence of a psychedelic substance. What if some of the participants were only able to source fake drugs, e.g. sugar cubes without any LSD in them?

How would that invalidate the results? The study heavily builds on self-reported belief about group membership (placebo or treatment [microdose]) for each trial day. If someone believes they are on shrooms all the time while not, and their psychological parameters improve, it's placebo. If someone produces some arbitrary pattern of on-off while actually not on anything, that's just noise for the study. That's why the…

How many of the participants tested that their drugs actually contained the correct amount of the correct compound?

I’m going to say few to none.

This study seems very unreliable, and I wouldn’t count out the possibility that it is junk science published to drive down stock prices of psychedelic health companies.

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#97

Post by hntrader »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #45
shric wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called homeopathy.

And Chiropractic. I would like to throw Psychiatry is there too, but they do seem to have some drugs that get people through short term misery. Read this the next time you wonder if that expensive antidepressant is really doing anything. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/

What a fascinating study. Placebo is 82 percent responsible for the positive effects of antidepressants, and the remaining effect is clinically insignificant and dominated by a change such as sleeping more, and is potentially the result of patients being able to break the blinding protocol.

Why haven't we heard more about this??

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#98

Post by Bancakes »

surround wrote: post #61

Let’s say there’s a Facebook group of moms that enjoy using essential oils. Imagine that a study gets posted to the group showing that essential oils are ineffective at treating some disease. If I made a comment in that community about how, in my anecdotal experience, essential oils cured me of this disease, it would probably be supported over the study. Now, instead of essential oils, let’s say I did the same thing…

That's alright, I trust my anecdotes more than scientific studies. I'd agree with you.

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#99

Post by ddelt »

neonate wrote: post #43

https://archive.is/cmA76

What is crazy is, trying to now view this on my mobile device required me to fill out a captcha, which I couldn’t even view because it wasn’t completely viewable on my mobile viewport.

Without venturing a positive or negative opinion either way: I clicked the original article, couldn’t see the content without paying, so I left. Clicked the link to presumably bypass the paywall, and couldn’t pass the bot detection in a few seconds as a human on my preferred reading device, so I left.

Now I don’t want to bother reading the article at all, and took the time to write a comment here instead.

Re: Microdosing study shows the placebo effect of taking psychelics

#100

Post by ketamine__ »

alacombe wrote: post #58
ketamine__ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big risk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analogue_Act

North America != United States.

Ah, "generally" excludes a country with 330 million people. Got it.
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