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Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

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Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#551

Post by lotsofpulp »

jpambrun wrote: post #505
el_nahual wrote: post #152

An issue that many commenters here are missing is that the problem with rent control will manifest more sharply in the future. Sure, the impact today seems relatively equitable: a windfall for people that rent today coupled with a small drop in supply. But fast forward 10 or 20 years and the situation looks far worse: everyone who got a windfall today is still living in the same apartment, whereas anyone trying to en…

Rent are controlled in Quebec since as far as I can remember. Rent are affordable in Montreal and supply is not a problem.

It’s because there’s isn’t that many people that want to live on Montreal.

The root issue in Berlin and SF and NYC is the demand far outstrips the supply. The only solution is to create more Berlins, but that’s not going to happen for myriad reasons.

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#552

Post by _-___________-_ »

jboog wrote: post #506
lutoma wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proponents of nuclear power labelling everyone who does not unequivocally support it "science deniers" is such infuriating populism. Nuclear power obviously has immense benefits, but there are also undeniable risks associated with it. It's entirely possible to be in favor or against it while considering the exact same scientific facts depending on which of these you consider more important, no "scientific denialism"…

Coal kills thousands of people a year in the US (13,000 if you believe the extreme estimates) Less than 20 people have died in Nuclear related accidents in the history of this technologies use. And almost every single one of those were unrelated to the nuclear technology itself (electrocution, other workplace accidents that could happen in any power plant) If you want to lump in Chernobyl and Fukushima we are still o…

I am generally in support of nuclear technology but statements like "Less than 20 people have died in Nuclear related accidents in the history of this technologies use" don't help the cause. That's just flat-out false, and you indicate in the following paragraph that you know that.

Leaving out the two most significant accidents in the history of the technology shouldn't be the default...

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#553

Post by iamthemalto »

TedShiller wrote: post #437
Xylakant wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counterexample is Vienna, which utilizes a well balanced system of rent-control and social housing to have incredibly low rents and still a stable supply of flats. One tweak they apply is that rent-control does not apply to new developments, so creating new flats is more lucrative than turning old buildings into luxury developments. The city also acts as a competitor, driving prices down by offering cheap flats. Th…

FYI, rents in Vienna are not "incredibly low". From someone who has rented there.

I think if you compare rents to a place like Munich, then Vienna is indeed quite low

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#554

Post by Kalium »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #547
Kalium wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, rent control is regulated by states and enacted by cities. Each state and city is free to do so differently. As such, it can and does vary quite significantly place to place. This means it's impossible to offer an informed comment about rent control in the US.

I don’t think any US state has laws about rent prices. It’s all up to unit cities.

Some states (California and Oregon come to mind) place limits about the terms of rent control that may be imposed by cities.

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#555

Post by Ekaros »

filoleg wrote: post #426
jtbayly wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, it was still rent controlled.

Yes, but only until the current tenant leaves. Which gave that landlord all the incentives to make the current tenant leave, as evident by the half-assed repairs and other slumlord-like behaviors that the parent comment mentioned.

You get what you pay for. If the tenant here wanted to live with slum like pricing, tenant should get slum like conditions.

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#556

Post by lotsofpulp »

Kalium wrote: post #554
lotsofpulp wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any US state has laws about rent prices. It’s all up to unit cities.

Some states (California and Oregon come to mind) place limits about the terms of rent control that may be imposed by cities.

Interesting, I had never heard of that. I've always only seen specific city's rent control policies.

Edit: Wow, OR and CA recently capped rental price increases statewide:

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2019/03/how-does-oregons...

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/statewide-rent-contr...

Meanwhile WA prohibits rent controls by any local government:

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=35.21.830

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#557

Post by 8note »

shuckles wrote: post #483
refurb wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you only have 15 years of free pricing, then build the housing with the highest short term margins possible. If you have free pricing in perpetuity, then you can build housing that might have a lower margin near term but an overall high NPV over its lifetime.

I doubt this calculation changes whether a developer chooses $500 or $1000 countertops. New units in San Francisco are not luxury units. Few have luxury amenities like doormen.

The difference between affordable and luxury housing is just the rent. It's the rent

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#558

Post by 8note »

rayiner wrote: post #532
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a national problem requiring a federal solution. Anything less will be exploited by desperate people. Don't hate the poor players. Hate the rich exploiting them for profit.

No, it’s the definition of a local problem. Housing where I live is affordable. I sure as hell don’t want voters in San Francisco mucking with my housing policy through a federal solution to solve their own self-inflicted problems. It’s a recipe for exporting insane SF/NYC housing policies to the rest of the country.

Yeah it's a local problem. You need border control to keep people from other towns and states from moving in

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#559

Post by bdowling »

refurb wrote: post #415
rsj_hn wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ellis act Owner movein is for moving yourself or a relative into the unit so you can live in it. Condo conversion is separate from Ellis act and Owner* Move in, it has to do with splitting off units to sell them independently, for example turning a TIC into a condo. Units that have been Ellised* or Owner Occupied* find it much more difficult to do a condo conversion, as there are laws about how long you need to wait…

Ellis Act is different than Owner Move-In (which covers family members too). Ellis Act, named after the law, was created as the govt can’t compel you to rent - you have the right to remove your home from the rental market. ” The Ellis Act (California Government Code Chapter 12.75)[1] is a 1985 California state law that allows landlords to evict residential tenants to "go out of the rental business" in spite of desire…

As an aside, Owner Move-In isn't always available. Around here I sometimes see listings for condos that are priced far below market. The reason is that the unit is occupied by a rent-controlled tenant who can't be evicted, even if the owner wants to move in. Sometimes the tenant will accept a large payment to move out, sometimes not.

Re: Rent controls have split housing in Berlin into two distinct markets

#560

Post by brutusborn »

cousin_it wrote: post #42
cassepipe wrote: post #24

The alternative proposed by the article is basically : let it unregulated, the market will provide. Which is how it was before. Was the problem solved? No. Maybe it is not the right solution but I doubt very much the author is concerned by the problem. The article says only some places have their rent capped so the rents of the uncapped ones are skyrocketing. I am not convinced it is a solution cause I don't claim to…

> The alternative proposed by the article is basically : let it unregulated, the market will provide. Which is how it was before. Was the problem solved? No. Sigh. Here's what the article actually says: > The right answer to that shortage would be to increase supply — for instance, by cutting red tape in zoning and construction. That's an alternative reform proposal, not going back to how things were before. I think…

It frustrates me to no end that on threads like these, comments on Georgist land-value taxes are buried so deeply. I wonder why they are not more widely recognised or discussed?
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