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Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

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451–460 of 947 posts

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On a side note: I'm not vegetarian. I simply agree with those who are." This was my position for a long time until finally making the jump at the beginning of the pandemic (vegetarian, will rarely eat fish sometimes). For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the envi…

> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the environmental or nutritional arguments feel like side issues to avoid just tackling this issue directly. For me, this is the weakest argument. Animals are not people, and agriculturally farmed animals only exist because of…

>> I don't have to resort to dreams and plans. They're simply _not human_ and so as someone who doesn't anthropomorphize them it's easy to simply not care whatsoever about their emotional state. It doesn't noticeably impact the quality of the meat.

I don't understand this. Why not care about the emotional state of the animal? You're going to kill it to eat it, there's no reason to cause it suffering too.

In any case, it's impossible to not care about the emotional state of an animal you grow and care for, including the ones you grow for food. But this is not something one learns living away from farmed animals and leaving someone else do all the dirty work of growing them and the bloody work of slaughtering them.

I think the above is at the root of both opinions like yours, and the other extreme, of abstaining from eating meat for nebulous ethical reasons. People eat other animals for very good reasons, but there is no good reason to make them suffer, or ignore their suffering, or not try to alleviate and minimise their suffering beyond what is absolutely necessary.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "So why should I not eat them? What kind of superior morality am I supposed to claim for myself to think I'm morally better than a pig? None. A pig would eat me, so I eat a pig." This just isn't very strong reasoning to me. Pigs and other animals do lots of things you would presumably not do. A pig would also not keep you in a farm to eat later (among many other industrialized things we do to livestock). Just becau…

>> Pigs and other animals do lots of things you would presumably not do. Yes, but they also do this thing that I would do. This is why this debate exists in the first place, yes? Because some animals eat other animals and we're that kind of animal. It doesn't matter if some aninmals would, e.g., eat their own excreta, because that is not something that humans do anyway and so there is no reason to discuss whether we…

> "I am arguing that if pigs were more intelligent than we are they would do to us exactly what we do to them, including keeping us in farms to eat later etc."

I don't think this is necessarily true. Throughout our own history humanity has done things we regret and decided were wrong (or are actively fighting against). Slavery, genocide, kings, torture - while struggling towards more just societies based on rule of law and more democratic government.

It's quite possible that raising and killing other animals with lots of suffering is something we will regret.

It's quite possible that another imaginary species of hyper-intelligent pigs would reach the same conclusion.

> "Most animals, particularly pigs, would get eaten by something anyway. By not eating them we are not reducing suffering, we are simply shifting the blame."

This is a different argument. Just because other animals that are not humans and don't have the capacity for choice would eat a pig, doesn't mean that humanity contributing to this suffering is the same. I'd also argue we do it at such a scale that it's much worse.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#453
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked that people seriously believe that the fundamentals of nutritional science are a virtual mystery or has enough "wiggle room" to make ridiculously broad claims about diet necessities. We know almost exact micrograms of iodine we need per day to be healthy. We have a pretty great idea of what the body needs to function optimally and are getting a clearer picture every day. Is this why GMOs became such a par…

If what you were saying were true, we wouldn't have wildly divergent (macro) diet and nutrition claims being made in cycles without clear resolution. Most of them are wrong, it seems, but the science is hard. You are right we have some pretty good information on deficiency problems with key things like iodine, B12 (topical) etc. We have much less understanding of how even dietary source actually work even with some k…

The hard part of modern diet isn't macro composition, it's measuring caloric requirements and sticking close to them over long periods of time. Macro composition can help with that, but eating way too much of the perfect diet is still going to be bad.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#454

Is beyond meat actually healthier than meat? If you search my question you’ll see the results are hardly conclusive. What’s everyone’s take?

I think it's more unhealthy because it contains too much mineral oil (search my other comment) according to various tests of a German magazine.

Yes, you've posted this elsewhere. Your sourcing is very poor on this, and you don't make it clear that it's residue, rather than an ingredient (further, you exaggerate the hazard substantially, this is something that is consumed in large quantities for treating constipation).

To be clear, it is not an ingredient, and it is Generally Recognized as Safe in multiple applications (https://www.fda.gov/food/food-additives-petitions/food-addit...) and it's pretty obvious from the product this is food equipment lubrication.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the environmental or nutritional arguments feel like side issues to avoid just tackling this issue directly. For me, this is the weakest argument. Animals are not people, and agriculturally farmed animals only exist because of…

> as someone who doesn't anthropomorphize them it's easy to simply not care whatsoever about their emotional state. It doesn't noticeably impact the quality of the meat You haven’t kill much, didn’t you? Otherwise you will know that stress and the way you kill the creature change it’s taste. Depending on what you are killing, it can be a dramatic change.

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Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there stats to back up that non-vegans begin consuming more vegan based meals if they have the option? And I mean more than once. A consumer might try it but then go back to normal. At there good stats on repeat buying on a large scale?

I have friends that prefer the Impossible breakfast sandwiches at Starbucks to their meat versions so that's what they order.

Your friends probably don't like the fillers they use. The turkey bacon for example uses ground up cherry pits to bulk it out and reduce cost.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a strawman. It can be true that meat provides a lot of good nutrition. It can be true that the human cooking/eating of meat led to better nutrition and development in ancient times (when people ate less of it). It can also be true that in the modern world you can get that nutrition without meat and there may be other good reasons to do so (animal suffering, environment, ability to feed more people, mo…

It may be that the extra nutritional benefits of meat can be matched by plant products. But the Beyond Meat offerings do not achieve anything close to that. They are made of highly processed industrial ingredients that are designed to approximate the texture of meat but not the nutritional profile. Pea proteins are not as complete nor bio-available as meat proteins, and the fatty acid profile is very different (and I…

The incomplete protein thing is a myth [1]. With anything close to a normal diet with a sufficient quantity of protein, the completeness of that protein has no effect on your physiology. Completeness becomes important only in severely deficient diets, where essential amino acids remain deficient for days or weeks.

Likewise, bioavailability is not an important consideration in any reasonable diet. Your body can use only a finite amount of protein daily, and the vast majority of people in the developed world consume more protein than they can use. Increasing the availability of that protein only requires the body to excrete more "unused" nitrogen.

What makes you think the fats in beef are superior to those in Beyond or Impossible?

1 - https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-latest/the-myth-of-compl...

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If at some point in the future we discovered a way to identify and measure "suffering" in all creatures, and (given this) further found that the animals we eat do not experience it, then what? What if we managed to measure the opposite of suffering (whatever you want to call that; I'll go with pleasure for now)? What if the animals experience quantifiable higher pleasure when raised as food? What then? I'm sure you h…

> "If at some point in the future we discovered a way to identify and measure "suffering" in all creatures, and (given this) further found that the animals we eat do not experience it, then what?" Then I'm okay with it (assuming in this hypothetical the result is true). I'd be surprised since fear/suffering is a pretty base level thing, but it'd change my mind. > "What if the animals experience quantifiable higher pl…

> "One thought experiment is imagine a pig that was historically bred to get happiness from being eaten"

Otherwise known as the 'Ameglian Major Cow' - https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Ameglian_Major_Cow

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#459

This brand was tested by German magazine called "Öko-Test" on their ingredients. Also not for the first time. It got a BAD review again because it contains too much mineral oil in it (could have various reasons, packaging of ingredients or oily manufacturing machines) and 20g fat per 100g "meat". So it's unhealthy on mineral oil (MOSH) which can easily accumulate in your body and fat percentage. One of the sources wh…

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Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#460
post #355

I wish companies were not able to label and sell these textured vegetable proteins as "meat". They are great products but they are not meat and as scale increases and they become less expensive than meat there will be strong commercial profit motives to replace real meat with "* meat" for monetary reasons. I'd strongly prefer for increased funding to isolated tissue culture methods. That way we could have real meat w…

there was a small push by the meat lobby to do exactly that a couple years ago [1] I think it's a silly form of regulation. there are plenty of non-milk milk products, or "fruit flavor" things that don't have any fruit https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/technology/meat-veggie-bu...

There were FDA rulings around the use of the word "milk". I think it went to court, and I don't recall the final ruling.
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