Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked • Hacker News Board

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#791

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

skynet-9000 wrote: post #789

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be fine with prison for phone spammers who ignore the "do not call" list. You could argue "free speech", but there's more to it than that - they're invading my space and time when I don't want them.

You can say anything you want, as long as you do not infringe on my rights, such as by consuming my resources (time, telecom services, fax paper, etc) when I explicitly said not to (via a Do Not Call listing, etc.) It's similar to a No Trespassing sign; you can picket on public property (free speech), but doing that on private property (when marked with a sign that fit certain criteria, in most states) might get you…

> No one will argue free speech for that, because you're now consuming someone else's resource (time, mobile minutes, etc) when they explicitly told you not to.

All of the arguments for “free speech” against platform content policies are exactly arguing for consuming someone else's reseources against their expressed direction, so it's provably false that that is sufficient to prevent people from arguing for entitlement based on “free speech”.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#792

Post by anigbrowl » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

ByTheBook wrote: post #261

anigbrowl wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, suppose there's a group of people saying that another group of people (which happens to include you) should be killed as soon as possible. In an ideal world, they probably wouldn't do that because they'd recognize that collective aggression against others could rebound on them, but in the imperfect world we actually occupy it happens all the time. Of course, you could just figure they'll limit their social oppo…

>Well, suppose there's a group of people saying that another group of people (which happens to include you) should be killed as soon as possible. But that is not protected free speech under the first amendment.

Some people think it is. In many legal jurisdictions, prosecutors and cops rely on the idea of a 'true threat' which has to be specific and imminent. So a generalized expression of hate like 'all _____ should die' wouldn't count. Here's a relevant example, about a woman in Michigan who eventually resorted to shaming her neighbor int he media because she had no confidence in reporting to police:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2021/0...

The problem with a very mechanistic/binary approach to legal questions is that it leaves a lot of room for antagonistic or outright threatening behavior that nevertheless remains within the bounds of legality. Experience suggests that's likely better than vague or arbitrary standards, but it's not a simple issue.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#793

Post by dublin » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #440

wp381640 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you can say anything that is not directly illegal in the US without fear of being banned or other moderation". That's not right at all. They both ban adult content and Gab will ban blasphemy. They also frequently remove drug content. They're stricter on banning speech than Twitter and the sites they fled from.

Can you give a citation for Gab banning blasphemy? After a few quick searches I was unable to find any reference to that anywhere else.

I have not seen Gab ban blasphemy. Andrew Torba has been pretty clear that any speech that is legal under the US Constitution (with a few exceptions for directly/personally violent threats, doxxing, etc.) is permitted on Gab. A small number of people who have abused the rules have been banned, but in every one of those cases that I'm aware of, it was for generally antisocial and abusive behavior, not the content of their speech.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#794

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

dublin wrote: post #790

Mindwipe wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gab's censorship of adult content is considerably stricter than obscenity law. They're not a free speech network, they're just a network where racism is permitted speech and anything they don't like is banned.

The main reason they banned "adult content" was simply that porn posters will fill any available online free forum. Reasonably enough, as a forum aimed at free speech, Gab wasn't eager to pay the hideous storage and networking costs of becoming another site like Tumblr, where that content had simply taken over...

> Reasonably enough, as a forum aimed at free speech, Gab wasn't eager to pay the hideous storage and networking costs

...of allowing certain speech.

Because that's, obviously, what “free speech” means.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#795

Post by Proziam » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

jmull wrote: post #639

Proziam wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally have very mixed feelings about Trump as a whole. On the one hand, I didn't vote for him. I see him as divisive and as an obstacle for progress on real issues that I personally care about. However, he has done a few things that I have sincere appreciation for. Primarily, we made significant gains towards peace in the middle east by negotiating treaties in the region. Another point in the win column (leadi…

> I find it difficult to attribute him to either party. When your mental model is persistently at odds with the way things work out in reality, you need to reexamine your mental model. Trump thinks he’s a Republican. A large majority of Republicans enthusiastically agree. I don’t know what you mean by “attribute” but however he got there, Trump is very definitely a Republican. It might help to recognize that a politi…

Trump has changed his party affiliation five times since 1987. He was a registered democrat for many years, even going on CNN and discussing that he identifies as a Democrat. While campaigning as a Republican he said repeatedly that he didn't align with the party's platform. Then, after all that, he recently was talking about starting an entirely new party.

> Trump thinks he’s a Republican.

His own statements, both during and prior to his time as president, strongly suggest otherwise.

> When your mental model is persistently at odds with the way things work out in reality, you need to reexamine your mental model.

You're absolutely right.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#796

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #791

skynet-9000 wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say anything you want, as long as you do not infringe on my rights, such as by consuming my resources (time, telecom services, fax paper, etc) when I explicitly said not to (via a Do Not Call listing, etc.) It's similar to a No Trespassing sign; you can picket on public property (free speech), but doing that on private property (when marked with a sign that fit certain criteria, in most states) might get you…

> No one will argue free speech for that, because you're now consuming someone else's resource (time, mobile minutes, etc) when they explicitly told you not to. All of the arguments for “free speech” against platform content policies are exactly arguing for consuming someone else's reseources against their expressed direction, so it's provably false that that is sufficient to prevent people from arguing for entitleme…

[deleted]

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#797

Post by dublin » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

_r0fz wrote: post #271

abernard1 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adverse selection. If your differenciating feature is "you can say what you want without getting banned", your userbase is going to tend towards people who get banned on other platforms. In todays climate, that is mostly the far right. And in Hong Kong, it's anti-CCP protestors. In Iran, it is opponents of the theocracy. We can play this game all day. Tech's obsession with hating on Gab/Parler is based upon on the…

> Tech's obsession with hating on Gab/Parler is based upon on the identity of the people in them Correct. We hate nazis.

There are a handful of Nazis on Gab, as I'm sure there are a handful of Nazis on HN. One of the nicest things about Gab is its Mute feature, which allows you to easily to never see the really obnoxious idiots again.

As for myself, I hate all totalitarians - Nazis are no worse than Communists, but they are no better, either. (Arguably, as horrible and inexcusable as the Nazis were, by the numbers they are in the flyweight class for genocide in the 20th century compared to their Communist counterparts...)

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#798

Post by skynet-9000 » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #791

skynet-9000 wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say anything you want, as long as you do not infringe on my rights, such as by consuming my resources (time, telecom services, fax paper, etc) when I explicitly said not to (via a Do Not Call listing, etc.) It's similar to a No Trespassing sign; you can picket on public property (free speech), but doing that on private property (when marked with a sign that fit certain criteria, in most states) might get you…

> No one will argue free speech for that, because you're now consuming someone else's resource (time, mobile minutes, etc) when they explicitly told you not to. All of the arguments for “free speech” against platform content policies are exactly arguing for consuming someone else's reseources against their expressed direction, so it's provably false that that is sufficient to prevent people from arguing for entitleme…

In that case, the rights of the (private) service provider are in tension with those of the (also private) individual, so it's a matter for legislation and the courts. Congress has passed laws protecting the speech of the individual within certain types of service providers, i.e. telecom/ISP/website publishers.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#799

Post by Proziam » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #771

Proziam wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree. I believe both parties have deeply rooted issues with corruption. On the levels that I am most knowledgeable about, the trend is roughly true. For example, Dems are the party of gun control while simultaneously militarizing police (a bipartisan effort). The moves to licensing and excessive taxation for what should be fundamental rights (e.g licenses to operate businesses, high taxes on your primary…

Direct democracy is worse - take a look at how California has been hurt by their referendum and recall processes. (Prop 13, first and foremost)

California has among the least efficient and effective governance models on the planet, overall. Switzerland also has a direct democracy, but they make it work quite well for them. Notably, they've seemed to enjoy just not doing what the EU wants. They've kept their own money, maintained military neutrality, and also maintained an extremely well-armed population.

Implementation probably matters more than the model. That said, I still prefer certain models because it aligns better with my personal principles.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#800

Post by edmundsauto » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

Proziam wrote: post #799

edmundsauto wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct democracy is worse - take a look at how California has been hurt by their referendum and recall processes. (Prop 13, first and foremost)

California has among the least efficient and effective governance models on the planet, overall. Switzerland also has a direct democracy, but they make it work quite well for them. Notably, they've seemed to enjoy just not doing what the EU wants. They've kept their own money, maintained military neutrality, and also maintained an extremely well-armed population. Implementation probably matters more than the model. T…

I'm not well read on the subject, but you appear to know what you're talking about. What do you see as the crucial differences (especially structural) between the two implementations?