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The Web’s Missing Interoperability

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Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#51

Post by EGreg »

ricree wrote: post #26
anderspitman wrote: post #7

In my opinion the way to enter the social network market is using the Slack/Discord approach. Rather than trying to make a better Facebook for the world, make a better Facebook for people to use for their specific community or company, and then make it easy to tie your account to multiple communities, and then (maybe) start connecting communities. I almost achieved escape velocity with Matrix/Riot in my gaming group…

>make a better Facebook for people to use for their specific community or company, and then make it easy to tie your account to multiple communities, and then (maybe) start connecting communities. Which, of course, was precisely how Facebook broke into the social network market in the first place. Initially not just for college students, but students at specific colleges. Then connecting students between college, the…

Except now it’s much more expensive and difficult to match what people want in 2021. You can’t just make a face book of ... “Profiles”.

Trust me we’ve been working on https://github.com/Qbix/Platform and we only recently reached the point where people’s main complaint is the APPEARANCE hahaha

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#52

Post by noizejoy »

pjettter wrote: post #36

It's not the web, it's computing in general that has not evolved in the right direction. A grid is not a grid is not a grid. An image is not an image is not an image. Etc. So rather than fixing the web, fix computing. It will fix the web too. If not, the web is even more in trouble.

$technology {web, computing, ...} is a mere reflection of the dynamics in our species.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#53

Post by jacobobryant »

mariushn wrote: post #47
jacobobryant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hm, no idea. I haven't thought about revenue models much since I've envisioned this more as a grass-roots thing than a startup opportunity. I think the main thing would be just making it dead easy to get started. You wouldn't necessarily need to jump start a new network since the whole point of this is to be interoperable with existing networks. A good first step might be making a personal site generator. Put in link…

How about Facebook, which requires an account to view the person posts? How would those be read? Besides maybe requiring user & password and logging in with a headless browser. Not sure if Instagram/Pinterest require a login too.

Entering in username + password is probably the only feasible way. Suboptimal for sure, but worked for mint...

In practice, this would probably start out with plugins for only sites that make data public. Not perfect, but still useful.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#54

Post by jrochkind1 »

twiss wrote: post #34
jrochkind1 wrote: post #25

> The cause is Apple: its approach to cookies makes platform-based web storefronts increasingly difficult to monetize effectively Can anyone explain this? I'm not sure what they are referring to.

Previously, cookies could be used to track users across websites (e.g. multiple websites using the Shopify platform, by making a request to shopify.com), but also to provide useful functionality (e.g. remembering their contact details). Now, this is not possible anymore, due to first-party isolation being implemented in Safari and now Firefox. Personally, I think this is not such a big deal, as the browser can rememb…

It goes without saying to his audience that you can't "monetize a platform-based storefront" without tracking users across websites?

Maybe I don't understand what "monetize a platform-based storefront" means exactly. He's talking about the particular store on shopify making money, not shopify itself getting customers, right?

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#55

Post by jrochkind1 »

tguedes wrote: post #28
jrochkind1 wrote: post #25

> The cause is Apple: its approach to cookies makes platform-based web storefronts increasingly difficult to monetize effectively Can anyone explain this? I'm not sure what they are referring to.

He means Shopify. Shopify merchants (and other DTC companies) heavily use Facebook/Instagram to target the specific audience they are targeting. Shopify has since announced that there will be a tighter integration with Facebook Shops

What does that have to do with "apple's approach to cookies makes platform-based web storefronts increasingly difficult to monetize effectively"?

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#56

Post by jacobobryant »

pdonis wrote: post #46
jacobobryant wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll scale because it's self-hosted. You don't serve everyone with the same app instance; everyone runs their own instance.

> It'll scale because it's self-hosted. You don't serve everyone with the same app instance; everyone runs their own instance. So everyone has their own free hosting account with repl.it and runs an app instance on it? Yes, technically that's "free" as in "no cost", but it's not "free" as in "no effort". The latter is the kind of "free" that Facebook users expect.

It's hardly more effort than making a Facebook account, and replit is still young--it's only going to get easier.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#57

Post by beardedetim »

hertzrat wrote: post #33
jacobobryant wrote: post #18

Heh, I published a post in a similar vein just today[1]. Lately I've been thinking the way to do it is have everyone publish a (paginated) Atom feed with all their public content interactions. So each item in the feed would be something like "published this blog post", "liked this tweet", "thinks this comment was written in bad faith", etc. And "follows this person" with a link to that person's atom feed. Then if you…

Interesting concept for sure. Is there a revenue model to attract top influencers? Maybe just links to a collection of Patreon-likes?

I think the money is in the aggregator. Everyone creates their own “log” so the noise is crazy. You follow “influencers” or go to aggregate sites that only vet info, not produce it.

You could have the aggregate behind a paywall, you could have donations or ads as well.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#58

Post by phkahler »

beardedetim wrote: post #32
jacobobryant wrote: post #18

Heh, I published a post in a similar vein just today[1]. Lately I've been thinking the way to do it is have everyone publish a (paginated) Atom feed with all their public content interactions. So each item in the feed would be something like "published this blog post", "liked this tweet", "thinks this comment was written in bad faith", etc. And "follows this person" with a link to that person's atom feed. Then if you…

I’ve been noodling this idea for a few years. I think it’s a great idea and it being based on Atom/RSS is a great move. The problem, I have found, is no one wants to pay for hosting. No one wants to self host. And by no one I mean no one that is using Facebook /Twitter / Insta / etc. and for this to really work, I think you need everyone hosting their own “log”. Interested in seeing more work done in this space and a…

>> The problem, I have found, is no one wants to pay for hosting. No one wants to self host.

Self hosting needs to be as easy as plugging a box into your router. This means some type of DNS or other way to find your node given all the ISPs failure to provide fixed IPs. Also a super easy management method and access controls (public, private, friends).

I have a lot more thoughts on that.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#59

Post by thombles »

twiss wrote: post #34
jrochkind1 wrote: post #25

> The cause is Apple: its approach to cookies makes platform-based web storefronts increasingly difficult to monetize effectively Can anyone explain this? I'm not sure what they are referring to.

Previously, cookies could be used to track users across websites (e.g. multiple websites using the Shopify platform, by making a request to shopify.com), but also to provide useful functionality (e.g. remembering their contact details). Now, this is not possible anymore, due to first-party isolation being implemented in Safari and now Firefox. Personally, I think this is not such a big deal, as the browser can rememb…

The author explains one of their main concerns:

> its attack on “tracking” — which goes far beyond the IDFA — makes it increasingly impossible to acquire users in one place and convert them in another

Somehow I can't bring myself to feel sympathy for business models affected by this.

Re: The Web’s Missing Interoperability

#60

Post by amiga-workbench »

EGreg wrote: post #51
ricree wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>make a better Facebook for people to use for their specific community or company, and then make it easy to tie your account to multiple communities, and then (maybe) start connecting communities. Which, of course, was precisely how Facebook broke into the social network market in the first place. Initially not just for college students, but students at specific colleges. Then connecting students between college, the…

Except now it’s much more expensive and difficult to match what people want in 2021. You can’t just make a face book of ... “Profiles”. Trust me we’ve been working on https://github.com/Qbix/Platform and we only recently reached the point where people’s main complaint is the APPEARANCE hahaha

I can sort of see what they mean by appearance, but its not far off looking tidy. The issues are mostly around padding and UI element proportions.

Some of your icons are too large for the elements they are inside of, the scaling of form elements within your filter interface is somewhat inconsistent too.

If I wasn't completely slammed at work I'd be open to submitting a PR.

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