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Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

element.io

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Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#91
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nickel is one of their existing plans, and Home is their new plan. Both offer the same features, except that Nickel offers an ability to use custom domains and is aimed at businesses. More on their pricing page [1] [1] https://element.io/pricing

It looks like Nickel is $2/user, with a minimum of $10. So for a family a fixed $10 is probably the smarter choice, rather than to have $2 more for every user added. EDIT: it seems Home is limited to 5 users, which means it's actually the same price. May i ask what would be the benefit of having your own DNS? I don't understand what your average group chat would gain...

As some of the others have said, custom DNS is largely for vanity and discoverability reasons. People know that they can find your website on your domain, why not chat to you on Matrix there too? :)

In addition to that though, there's also the aspect of being able to choose to host your homeserver on your own infrastructure, using your own domain, should you want to.

In Matrix your homeserver (domain) name is "baked in" to every event created by your homeserver, which means that you can't change it after setup. If your homeserver is set up on, say, "foo.ems.host", you can take a snapshot of the data at any point but you couldn't just set it up to run on your domain. If you start hosting with your own custom DNS pointed at EMS then you can take over and host on your own infrastructure at any point.

As mentioned in this thread, Element home is intended to make it as easy as possible for people to get up and running with their own Matrix homeserver. To do this we've really reduced the number of configuration steps in initial setup as much as possible, including hiding custom DNS setup which can be quite complicated.

This won't be a problem for most people, but if you're interested in custom DNS (and want EMS to host it for you), you'd probably want to start with the EMS Nickel package, with custom DNS, rather than Element Home.

It's worth noting that we're currently working on "account portability" which would allow you to decouple homeservers from specific domains. So, once this is available you should be able to change domain names etc. at any point.

I think that you've got it already, but just to clarify the pricing, the costs and constraints for Nickel and Element Home hosts are the same - $10 per month for up to 5 active users. Additional users can be added at an additional cost of $2/per user/month.

(Disclaimer - I head up Element Matrix Services)

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#92
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fewer ways for it to be misconfigured? In Matrix you've got to remember to turn on the encryption, and verify each of your clients. At least that's my understanding, maybe that is out of date.

Encryption is on by default. In both cases you should verify.

Neat! Thank you for the correction.

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#93

"Dedicated server" mentioned 4 times in that article. In hosting world, dedicated server means real physical server. I wonder if that's just marketing speak and in reality it's virtual server or they really install a separate server for every customer.

A dedicated server seems like overkill. A shared VPS works fine for many realtime applications, even fast-paced games that host 50 players concurrently that send out updates every 32 milliseconds, like agar.io, diep.io, or vnav.io.

If I wanted lower latency, I would add WebRTC-based P2P chat for those who support it, to connect directly between servers.

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#94
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thought, but do your dozen folks use video calls on your instance? Does it work well enough? I'd definitely expect to be able to host a text-only instance for $5, but maybe they also need to provision for more demanding features? I only use Element / Matrix as an IRC replacement for now so I couldn't tell.

I host a Matrix server for my family and we regular make audio calls to Australia. I had to try a few services before I found a $5 VPS that worked well, but network was always the limiting factor rather than server specs. The unavoidable latency makes video calls unpleasant so I can’t speak to that.

Hmmmm, which service worked well for you? Interested in knowing.

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#95

While I love Matrix and support their mission, this pricing is quite a bit steep, as well as the 5-person limit being too restricting. They will price out large majority of people who actually could/would want to switch.

Hi - Yep, we totally get that this won't be for everyone. We're currently looking for ways to be able to increase the efficiency of these smaller servers and to be able to pass those cost reductions on to customers. We've also got some projects in the works aimed at being able to offer single account / single user "homeservers" and obviously the pricing for these would be much lower, but we're not quite there yet. Mo…

What hosting provider are you using? AWS, GCP, and Azure are several times more expensive with the same performance as smaller providers, of which DigitalOcean provides the worst performance. (50% less) https://vpsbenchmarks.com

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#96
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why don't you?

As you probably saw in the blog post, the ability to do this is currently only offered via the desktop app, which I do not use. I only use the web interface, the Android app, and a non-Element matrix client. Element said in the blog post that it will add this option to the Android app, and once it does, I will use it and subscribe. Hopefully that answers your question.

Ahh... thanks for pointing that out. That was a mistake in the blog article (fixed now).

In fact the migrator only works on the web apps at the moment (not desktop or mobile).

That said, even if the in-app migrator isn't available to other clients, people are obviously free to set up Element Nickel or Home direct from the website.

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#97
I have one large concern with this. It's not a FLOSS service, it's SSaaS. Let me explain.

While Matrix is open-source, Element Matrix hosting gives you no option to modify the source code, not letting you install add-ons or modifications. There's no way to say, "Hey, check out this cool chat patch, just install it on your homeserver!" With proprietary service, if you want a feature, all you can do is say, "Ugh, I wish they would add it." With a freedom-respecting service, you could just hire someone to add it.

Therefore, EMS is not a freedom-respecting service. It's as freedom-respecting as proprietary ElasticSearch.

The headline explains that it violates the most fundamental principle of free software:

- The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).

It does not even attempt to give you this freedom:

- The freedom to... change the program so it does your computing as you wish.

OSS that's not FLOSS doesn't have any of the ethical benefits: A locked-down Android phone is "open-source" but not free software, as you can't modify it.

There should be a way to be able to upload patches onto your server. If corruption ensues, Element Matrix Services should not be held responsible. Let users be responsible for their software! Stop treating them like babies.

It also generally makes it much harder for open-source contributors to experiment, as you must go through a centralized repo to gain adoption.

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#99
post #98

I find the chart presented to be very deceptive with regards to "Own your data" and Signal. It implies that the Signal servers store your messages and other data which they do not.

AFAIK they do, just not in a way that anyone but the sender and receiver(s) can read.

Re: Element Matrix Services Announces Element Home

#100
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same thought, but do your dozen folks use video calls on your instance? Does it work well enough? I'd definitely expect to be able to host a text-only instance for $5, but maybe they also need to provision for more demanding features? I only use Element / Matrix as an IRC replacement for now so I couldn't tell.

I host a Matrix server for my family and we regular make audio calls to Australia. I had to try a few services before I found a $5 VPS that worked well, but network was always the limiting factor rather than server specs. The unavoidable latency makes video calls unpleasant so I can’t speak to that.

Have you tried using Mumble [1] to chat with your family? I ask because I have chatted with gamers that are in AU and NZ from the US with almost no detectable latency. I can see their latency in the client, but I can't hear it. There are open servers you can test it out with to avoid setting up the server and save you some time setting up the server in the event it does not work better.

[1] - https://www.mumble.info/

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