National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report • Hacker News Board

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#31

Post by tsimionescu » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:36 AM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #15

robomartin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the sarcasm. The US is facing the realities caused by somewhere in the order of 50 years of incompetence in government at nearly every level. This isn’t going to change any time soon. While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world. Well done! A line from St…

> I believe Europe is in the same boat You think? While UK was busy banning Huawei for spycraft, Macron was signing a partnership to install Huawei factories in France. I guess “when you can’t beat spies, invite them to your own territory and pay them”, or something like that, I don’t know I’m not a politician.

> Macron was signing a partnership to install Huawei factories in France.

So he is doing exactly what China did - Making sure production is happening in his country, regardless of who nominally owns the factory. A step in the right direction.

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#32

Post by benlivengood » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:43 AM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #7

lostcolony wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is our elected representatives are sure to read it, understand it, and make sound policy from it.

I appreciate the sarcasm. The US is facing the realities caused by somewhere in the order of 50 years of incompetence in government at nearly every level. This isn’t going to change any time soon. While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world. Well done! A line from St…

> While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world.

It's pretty funny to blame AOC and Bernie, neither who have controlled more than a portion of a state government, for China's rise in relative power over the last 50 years. Additionally what is the supposed enemy here? Leftist socialism, like China has?

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#33

Post by buildbot » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:46 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #20

d110af5ccf wrote: post #2

At 756 pages, this looks to be longer than many textbooks. > Microelectronics power all AI, and the United States no longer manufactures the world’s most sophisticated chips. We do not want to overstate the precariousness of our position, but given that the vast majority of cutting-edge chips are produced at a single plant separated by just 110 miles of water from our principal strategic competitor, we must reevaluat…

It really is a concern just how dependent the entire world is on TSMC. "The best human operator cannot defend against multiple machines making thousands of maneuvers per second potentially moving at hypersonic speeds and orchestrated by AI across domains." Attacks by drone swarms are already here. The first one was Syria vs. Russia in 2018.[1] There was an attack on Saudi oil facilities in 2019.[2] Much of this has l…

I mean it’s not like intel and their fans are utterly worthless, they may not be on par with TSMC 5nm yet, but in the end given a strong strategic need, I don’t think we’d be without advanced chips for very long if TSMC is overtaken by China.

There’s also the fact that a war between China and Taiwan is almost certainly going to go hot with the USA too, possibly leading to nuclear exchanges…

It’s much more likely that China eventually starts producing their own state of the art silicon before going to war with Taiwan.

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#34

Post by tsimionescu » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:46 AM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #7

lostcolony wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is our elected representatives are sure to read it, understand it, and make sound policy from it.

I appreciate the sarcasm. The US is facing the realities caused by somewhere in the order of 50 years of incompetence in government at nearly every level. This isn’t going to change any time soon. While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world. Well done! A line from St…

> While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world.

It is exactly people like Bernie and AOC who are likely to bring manufacturing back to the USA, instead of letting corporations continue to outsource every last job they can to save a dollar on labor.

The current predicament is the fault of capitalism and so called free trade agreements, which have greatly hurt global trade in goods in favor of financial fictions. Instead of US companies having to buy goods from foreign companies, they can just buy the factories and manufacture their own goods with foreign labor. Instead of a free international market for goods, this created a free international market for labor, and a global distributed planned economy, dominated by behemoths that at least nominally own much of their entire supply chain, across many countries.

This hurts workers (i.e. the majority of the population) in most countries, but it benefitted the rich investors, especially in the USA. Far from incompetent governance, this has been very competent in achieving the wrong goals. Capitalism working as advertised: prioritizing the needs of capital today over everything else: workers, national security, even capital tomorrow.

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#35

Post by lifeisstillgood » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:57 AM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #34

robomartin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the sarcasm. The US is facing the realities caused by somewhere in the order of 50 years of incompetence in government at nearly every level. This isn’t going to change any time soon. While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world. Well done! A line from St…

> While we have been busy de-educating our new generations and worshiping idiots like Bernie and AOC, the Chinese worked hard and went from an agricultural society to the second economy in the world. It is exactly people like Bernie and AOC who are likely to bring manufacturing back to the USA, instead of letting corporations continue to outsource every last job they can to save a dollar on labor. The current predica…

>>> Instead of US companies having to buy goods from foreign companies, they can just buy the factories and manufacture their own goods with foreign labor. Instead of a free international market for goods, this created a free international market for labor, and a global distributed planned economy

I have never thought of the analysis like that. Things like Ricardos law assume countries are independent agents intermediating with trade. it obviously that ... fascinating

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#36

Post by tomerico » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 8:05 AM UTC

buildbot wrote: post #33

Animats wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a concern just how dependent the entire world is on TSMC. "The best human operator cannot defend against multiple machines making thousands of maneuvers per second potentially moving at hypersonic speeds and orchestrated by AI across domains." Attacks by drone swarms are already here. The first one was Syria vs. Russia in 2018.[1] There was an attack on Saudi oil facilities in 2019.[2] Much of this has l…

I mean it’s not like intel and their fans are utterly worthless, they may not be on par with TSMC 5nm yet, but in the end given a strong strategic need, I don’t think we’d be without advanced chips for very long if TSMC is overtaken by China. There’s also the fact that a war between China and Taiwan is almost certainly going to go hot with the USA too, possibly leading to nuclear exchanges… It’s much more likely that…

I wonder how many countries today are not in war simply because of fear of retaliation from the USA.

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#37

Post by lifeisstillgood » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 8:11 AM UTC

d110af5ccf wrote: post #23

account57456 wrote: post #16

Off topic - if I wanted to write a report like that with those cool templates and graphics - what did they use ? I don’t think google docs can do that :)

From experience, Microsoft Office (Word plus PowerPoint for diagrams) is capable of doing approximately all of what you see there. I'm not sure what the current state of LibreOffice is when it comes to advanced typesetting, but I expect it could easily do everything in that report. LaTeX is in a class of it's own, practically the space shuttle compared to a Cessna. Unfortunately, the learning curve is a seemingly end…

Can latex produce this level - I have only ever got to the basic level and realised that getting something at the "simple MS Office" level is a vast climb.

Any templates that are beyond "maths paper in arxiv" level I should look again at?

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#38

Post by paganel » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

buildbot wrote: post #33

Animats wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a concern just how dependent the entire world is on TSMC. "The best human operator cannot defend against multiple machines making thousands of maneuvers per second potentially moving at hypersonic speeds and orchestrated by AI across domains." Attacks by drone swarms are already here. The first one was Syria vs. Russia in 2018.[1] There was an attack on Saudi oil facilities in 2019.[2] Much of this has l…

I mean it’s not like intel and their fans are utterly worthless, they may not be on par with TSMC 5nm yet, but in the end given a strong strategic need, I don’t think we’d be without advanced chips for very long if TSMC is overtaken by China. There’s also the fact that a war between China and Taiwan is almost certainly going to go hot with the USA too, possibly leading to nuclear exchanges… It’s much more likely that…

> There’s also the fact that a war between China and Taiwan is almost certainly going to go hot with the USA too, possibly leading to nuclear exchanges…

There was an article in The Economist a couple of weeks ago saying that that may no longer be the case, I mean the US automatically siding with Taiwan in case of China's aggression. Take that as you will, I looked at it as an establishment mouthpiece airing valid concerns that some members of said establishment have regarding US's "seriousness" in the region.

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#39

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #3

d110af5ccf wrote: post #2

At 756 pages, this looks to be longer than many textbooks. > Microelectronics power all AI, and the United States no longer manufactures the world’s most sophisticated chips. We do not want to overstate the precariousness of our position, but given that the vast majority of cutting-edge chips are produced at a single plant separated by just 110 miles of water from our principal strategic competitor, we must reevaluat…

So what you're saying is our elected representatives are sure to read it, understand it, and make sound policy from it.

Governments? I wonder why Apple is not losing sleep over this...

It's a major geopolitical risk and they're sitting right on top of it. Like thinking a landmine only hurts enemy combatants and not children playing soccer.

Re: National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence's Final Report

#40

Post by carmen_sandiego » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #37

d110af5ccf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From experience, Microsoft Office (Word plus PowerPoint for diagrams) is capable of doing approximately all of what you see there. I'm not sure what the current state of LibreOffice is when it comes to advanced typesetting, but I expect it could easily do everything in that report. LaTeX is in a class of it's own, practically the space shuttle compared to a Cessna. Unfortunately, the learning curve is a seemingly end…

Can latex produce this level - I have only ever got to the basic level and realised that getting something at the "simple MS Office" level is a vast climb. Any templates that are beyond "maths paper in arxiv" level I should look again at?

It can but I'm not sure the effort is really worth it. I went through a period of my life where I was using LaTeX for literally every document I produced. Presentations, all kinds of charts and cheatsheets with diagrams and illustrations through TikZ. They looked beautiful in the end but nobody who consumes them appreciates the massive effort. People assume you are just slightly better at Word rather than really good at LaTeX. Not that the only point of learning things is to impress others, but it's pretty demoralizing.

At the time I thought 'just learn one tool well and use it forever', but now I feel more like 'just use the best tool for the job'. In this case I would say that's InDesign and a few hours of tutorials, mostly. The illustrations you can choose another tool if appropriate.