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iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

cringely.com

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Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#91

Post by pilgrim689 »

chrisjsmith wrote: post #7

I think there are too many PC's running windows available at a low price point to make this argument even worth considering. You can get laptops for less than the price of an iPod touch. Add to that, Windows Live's offerings such as Mesh, Hotmail (with Windows Live Mail client), SkyDrive and Office home and student edition are actually really good despite them not getting as much press coverage. People only talk abou…

Mesh is such a great product...It's too bad it hasn't gotten much attention. You just tell it what folders to watch and it'll quietly sync those folders across all your devices -- cloud included.

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#92

Post by JayWilmont »

CJefferson wrote: post #82

Interestingly, for me the iCloud is the last straw to make me leave Mac. I recently bought an Android phone, and I've found that Apple really hates co-operating with anything which isn't another Apple product. I could get a new iPhone, but I don't want to tie myself so I forever after have to buy mini macs, macbooks, iphones and ipads if I want to be able to get at my existing data. Google is much better in this resp…

In the keynote they mentioned photos being kept updated on a Windows machine as well. iCloud subtracts zero functionality from any device (though it does change MobileMe, that doesn't seem to be your issue). Once a document is on your machine, you can turn off iCloud and that document will persist on your computer/iPhone/whatever unmolested just like it did pre-iCloud.

What about iCloud (which you can turn off if you want) that upsets you so?

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#93

Post by SoftwareMaven »

eropple wrote: post #25
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, what do you use on a Mac to compose documents? Word. No. I use Pages (part of Apple's iWork) for almost everything. If I need Word comparability, I open LibreOffice. Given how seamless the iWork experience is becoming between iDevices (which will be including Macs), how much cheaper iWork is, and how much better the iWork user experience is (they don't have 20 years of feature-cruft littering the interface),…

No. I use Pages (part of Apple's iWork) for almost everything. If I need Word comparability, I open LibreOffice. And if you need to do something remotely complex, neither works. Pages is decent for the very baseline word processing; OpenOffice is good for very little of anything. The overwhelming majority of people use Office because what you call "cruft" is what other people call "important".

I disagree. The usage of features in Word undoubtably follow the power law, so there is undoubtably somebody somewhere who does use any particular feature, but the vast majority of people don't use them.

Pages doesn't have all of the functions and if you can't live without a particular function, it is obviously not a good replacement. However, for the vast majority of users, it has all the functionality that they will ever need and then some, without worrying about getting lost in menus of functionality that they will never care about.

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#94

Post by SoftwareMaven »

num1 wrote: post #90
flatulent1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are missing the point. Apple is actually moving in the direction of less lock-in as far as the consumer goes. They've basically said that in the latest generation many people won't need to buy any one device to use as a hub or to sync, and no additional device is needed to establish service. They seem to have gone as far as content providers will allow in getting away from DRM, and they support syncing…

> Apple is actually moving in the direction of less lock-in as far as the consumer goes. Do you expect that any non-Apple device will be able to use iCloud? Vendor Lock-in is what's important here, and it's definitely been made stronger by this move. Once all your data is in the cloud, do you want to go through all the effort of moving it to a different cloud (if you even can!) or do you want to cough up a few extra…

Do you expect that any non-Apple device will be able to use iCloud?

Given that Apple is supporting Windows for Photo Stream and iTunes Match at least, I would say the answer is closer to yes than you are intimating here.

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#95

Post by JayWilmont »

baconner wrote: post #59

Remember the big stink about being able to bring your us cellphone number with you to a new provider? The new era of consumer cloud data looks like its going to take customer lock in to new heights. IMO it's time to start rallying for a universal right to export.

What lockin?

1. You can still do whatever you want with your files as they still live on your local machine. 2. You can sync with Windows machines (photos were mentioned as an example in the keynote) 3. You can turn off iCloud

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#96

Post by SoftwareMaven »

stcredzero wrote: post #49
spenrose wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted b/c I think your rejection of Cringely is right, but the reason is different. Jobs/Apple are not in this for the money. They simply believe that iOS + cloud is a better way to compute.

They simply believe that iOS + cloud is a better way to compute. At WWDC. I won't say anything specific, but I'm beginning to think that Apple's business model is/has been to take all the awesome stuff that people developed in research labs since the 60's, and they're implementing it when/where it makes sense . Basically, Apple has been in the business of arbitrage of R&D awesomeness. (As opposed to the most common u…

I think you would see this pattern with every hugely successful company. Microsoft took the work that happened in the 70s to make personal computing possible and developed a business around it at the point it was ready for huge growth.

It is rarely good for a startup to be on the absolute bleeding edge of an industry, but if you can catch the tipping point[0] (and execute well), you have pretty much guaranteed success.

[0] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316346624/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#98

Post by num1 »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #94
num1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is actually moving in the direction of less lock-in as far as the consumer goes. Do you expect that any non-Apple device will be able to use iCloud? Vendor Lock-in is what's important here, and it's definitely been made stronger by this move. Once all your data is in the cloud, do you want to go through all the effort of moving it to a different cloud (if you even can!) or do you want to cough up a few extra…

Do you expect that any non-Apple device will be able to use iCloud? Given that Apple is supporting Windows for Photo Stream and iTunes Match at least, I would say the answer is closer to yes than you are intimating here.

I hadn't heard of that thank you for pointing it out. This does make things look more optimistic. I would still define it as vendor lock-in though. The iTunes binary might be available for Windows, but Apple still claims control over your experience and your data.

While they are in control of your data, you will be faced with a question every time you upgrade your hardware. Do you want to interact with your own documents and music using a clunky interface, or do you want to use an interface that makes you feel more in control and happier?

The above question is a little contrived, but I believe that it is fairly close to the truth, Apple has always been a company based on making you feel good.

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#99

Post by Umofomia »

eropple wrote: post #58
ugh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overwhelming majority? I doubt it. I have no doubt at all that there is a small minority of people who absolutely cannot do without some feature of Word that no competitor offers. But that’s a minority, not a majority. The reason why I’m using Word, why my parents use Word, why my friends use Word (despite not needing any feature it has over Pages or OpenOffice) is that everyone else is using it. Importing and export…

I can't find the link offhand but I recall it being said by someone affiliated with Office that pretty much everyone uses about 20% of Word's features. The difference is in which 20%. You might have a set of feature needs that Pages covers. I know that pretty much everyone in my company (that is, management and project people--engineers could get by with whatever, that's not a big deal) couldn't use Pages, and their…

I believe this is an article you were looking for (written by Joel Spolsky): http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000020.html

The gist is that even though most people only use 20% of the features, everyone's 20% is a different set of features. So by creating a 'lite' version of your software, you actually end up alienating a lot of your users.

Re: iCloud’s Real Purpose is to Kill Windows

#100

Post by SoftwareMaven »

eropple wrote: post #58
ugh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overwhelming majority? I doubt it. I have no doubt at all that there is a small minority of people who absolutely cannot do without some feature of Word that no competitor offers. But that’s a minority, not a majority. The reason why I’m using Word, why my parents use Word, why my friends use Word (despite not needing any feature it has over Pages or OpenOffice) is that everyone else is using it. Importing and export…

I can't find the link offhand but I recall it being said by someone affiliated with Office that pretty much everyone uses about 20% of Word's features. The difference is in which 20%. You might have a set of feature needs that Pages covers. I know that pretty much everyone in my company (that is, management and project people--engineers could get by with whatever, that's not a big deal) couldn't use Pages, and their…

My experience the vast majority of the time trying to get people to change away from Word is not that Pages doesn't have the features they want, but that they have to learn a new way to do it in Pages.

This is not to discount that as a valid issue. Taking time to learn new software is time taken away from the real business of the company.

I think Apple could help itself by having a rather large "I used to use Word, how do I do XXX in Pages?" help section inside of Pages (and Numbers and Keynote, though Keynote probably needs it less).

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