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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#541

Post by dragonwriter »

nyolfen wrote: post #539
dragonwriter wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. The right (religious and otherwise) hasn't reduced it's policing of ideological orthodoxy at all. Now, if you threw “exclusively” into that sentence, there might be something like a point.

maybe internally, but i haven't heard of conservatives getting random kids on twitter expelled from school lately

> haven't heard of conservatives getting random kids on twitter expelled from school lately

I have, for actual kids (as in children, not young adults), including lately. Usually for something like “their mother has an OnlyFans page”.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#542

Post by taurath »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #522
rayiner wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you’re saying is that the New York Times is now the progressive version of Liberty University then I accept that concession. Regarding your edit: > Edit: Forgot to mention this extreme example of cancel culture: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/professor-who-wore-hijab- ... The professor was fired from a Christian school for making an assertion (that Muslims and Christians “worship the same god”) that, acco…

I had to cancel my NYT (after 15 years) because it has gone from center left to far left cancel culture bastion. They follow the guilty until proven innocent mindset of the current generation of "twitterati" and sucumb to their whims.

Do you have examples of the NYT cancelling someone for nonbigoted views?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#543

Post by daenz »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

This is whataboutism. Just because something may have always been, doesn't make it any less valid to talk about ending it.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#544

Post by mr_toad »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

> Turing being prosecuted for being gay

Excluding people because they exclude others is not the same as excluding people because of who they are.

Its the difference between ‘cancel culture’, and plain bigotry.

If you don’t want to be excluded, stop being a bully.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#545

Post by finnthehuman »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #451
keiferski wrote: post #9

I find it almost funny how the media/culture/etc. seems determined to build a group of people that will react negatively to so-called "cancel culture." They seem to think that people will gladly follow the ever-growing list of arbitrary rules indefinitely. If I were a betting man, I'd predict a resurgence in punk attitudes in about 2025 or 2030. At some point, the dam will break and people will stop caring. I already…

Have you considered that cancel culture is the new punk rock? Look at the reaction in this thread. The responses range from clutching pearls to legitimate fear. Just like the reactions to punk rock. Even the real punk rock was pretty much in line with what we consider cancel culture. It's an attack on the establishment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_Queen_(Sex_Pistol...

No, I haven't considered that shutting down expression was punk.

But I was never in the punk scene, all I know is that it was fun music that caused a lot of unwarranted fuss from those against punk music being heard. Maybe I'm wrong.

>punk rock was pretty much in line with what we consider cancel culture. It's an attack on the establishment

Calling cancel culture "anti-establishment" is like a congressperson running for reelection by campaigning against "washington insiders." Like, yeah, you can make the case that it's not a 1-to-1 match with the establishment status quo, but only because the status quo is the vector sum of a hodgepodge of mutually exclusive but still individually powerful components.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#546

Post by nine_k »

rayiner wrote: post #453
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

If what you’re saying is that the New York Times is now the progressive version of Liberty University then I accept that concession. Regarding your edit: > Edit: Forgot to mention this extreme example of cancel culture: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/professor-who-wore-hijab- ... The professor was fired from a Christian school for making an assertion (that Muslims and Christians “worship the same god”) that, acco…

The problem is that Christians are varied. For Catholics, for instance, God of Muslims and Christians is the same, and the Pope has explicitly stated so.

Some Evangelical Christians, being Protestants, have a ton of disagreement with Catholics, and disagree at this point, too.

Muslims universally agree, AFAICT, because Muhammad himself stated this explicitly (and Christ figures prominently as a prophet in Quran).

See a short analysis in [1].

Even though the OP was not correct at classifying the case as a manifestation of "cancel culture", I can see the similarity. It is in the same intolerance and unwillingness to discuss and listen in either case. The truth is known, any doubt is a vice, whoever disagrees should be shamed away. This is what I find the most dangerous part of the phenomenon.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/20/460480698/do-christians-and-m...

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#547

Post by jtbayly »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

A professor at a Christian college claimed to be in religious solidarity with Muslims. That’s pretty much like saying that you’re attempting to further Facebook’s goals as a Google employee. Of course you get fired.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#548

Post by [deleted] »

taurath wrote: post #542
stjohnswarts wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to cancel my NYT (after 15 years) because it has gone from center left to far left cancel culture bastion. They follow the guilty until proven innocent mindset of the current generation of "twitterati" and sucumb to their whims.

Do you have examples of the NYT cancelling someone for nonbigoted views?

[deleted]

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#549

Post by klyrs »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #375
lostcolony wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's presumptuous to assume "it's okay to backslide" was part of that comment. What/when are we backsliding from? There was never some 'golden age' where comments anathema to the culture at large wouldn't have consequences. Even the popular victims of cancel culture now have it better than the ones in the 1950s, say (i.e., Gina Carano may have been fired from one company, but that was because she persisted in…

> I think it's presumptuous to assume "it's okay to backslide" was part of that comment. I wasn't assuming or presuming, I was asking . > What/when are we backsliding from? There was never some 'golden age' where comments anathema to the culture at large wouldn't have consequences. We're not just talking about comments that are "anathema to the culture at large", we're often talking about comments that offend only ab…

> For what it's worth, I don't think conservatives 15 years ago were morally better than today's woke progressives; rather, I think the difference is social media (notably, conservatives canceled Colin Kaepernick almost immediately after social media cancelation came into existence).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu...

Is it just social media, or is it media? When somebody does a thing visibly enough to rile up a crowd... the crowd gets riled. What's new here? The words "cancel culture".

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#550

Post by danbolt »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #176
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

>So all that being said, I genuinely wonder if cancel culture is here to stay, because the next ideology to come along will also realize how powerful of a tool it is. Here to stay for sure. There's an active group of people behind it. They are the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left and they still exist today. The problem is that in 1989 when socialism died. They started their rebranding effort. They became Politi…

I don't think Justin Trudeau is left. He wouldn't be the leader of a centrist party otherwise. The Canadian Liberals go right (eg: Martin/Chrétien in the 90s [1]) and then left (Cannabis legalization in 2012 [3], social positions in 2015 [2]) when it suits them. If he was left-wing his fiscal policies would be a lot closer to the NDP.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Martin#Finance_Minister

[2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-party-...

[3] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/liberal-delegates-vote-...

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