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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

bbc.com

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#531

Post by grumple »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

I'd say that the left doing its best imitation of the worst things the right does is a bad thing.

"But the right has always done this" should be all the evidence you need that what you're doing is wrong.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#532

Post by nine_k »

president wrote: post #467
nine_k wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underpinnings of the "cancel culture", the intolerance and mob mentality, were always around. The "cancel culture" adds two news things to the picture. One is the ability for anyone to participate, not just the few on the TV screen or newspaper pages. Another is the attempts at totality: expel the victim from every social media platform, every internet hosting, every payment platform, every public venue. It's not…

Spot on. The interesting thing to note about the "mob mentality" of cancel culture in 2021 is that it is truly "power to the people". Essentially you have major corporations, politicians, and a media environment that are ceding to the cancelling demands of a certain majority because they will reap the rewards of this massive group of people whether that is more sales/profits, more votes, or more views. It is a story…

I'm not even sure it's a majority, just a very vocal and intolerant group, seen by many non-participants as doing a virtuous thing, fighting for social justice.

Of course most businesses would not oppose such a force, because otherwise they will be a target themselves, and enough of a public opinion would be against them, at least vaguely. They have everything to lose, and very little to win if they do not conform. This is why the "cancel culture" easily makes them cooperate.

Apparently, in the eyes of many, freedom is seriously less important than justice, and justice is often seen as the right to not be offended by anything. Not that it's impossible to achieve, but the resulting society would end up extremely homogeneous.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#533

Post by jonathanyc »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

See also the phrase “Banned in Boston.” Some of the replies seem to assume that cancel culture is worse because it is more indiscriminate or less well-informed. Social conservatives in Boston banned a $5 bill for showing an unclothed breast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_in_Boston

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#534

Post by standardUser »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #134
standardUser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

I find attitudes like this mystifying. No one is saying that today's cancel culture is comparable to getting tortured, imprisoned, or killed for one's beliefs. We're talking about perfectly good and unobjectionable books being hounded out of publication because of thought crimes. Lest you think this only happens to the Alex Jones of the world, look at what's happening in the young adults world: https://www.theguardia…

Artists receiving critical attacks from their patrons certainly isn't new. What is new is this idea that these objections are unacceptable. What do you think anarchists and queers and sex freaks endured for the last hundred years of art and media? If you have a viewpoint you think is worth defending, then defend it and work to advance it. Don't just pout when it's not automatically accepted.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#535

Post by standardUser »

aparsons wrote: post #57
standardUser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

> some companies won't work with you It's a pretty big deal when that company is your employer. We need better protections around speech in this country. Firing someone for something they said cannot be a one-sided decision. At the minimum, the worker deserves the chance to go to court/arbitration

Conservatives have fought tooth and nail for at-will employment for a hundred years. If they would like to moderate those views I am sure we could find a way to expand protections for workers in a variety of ways, including speech.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#536

Post by taurath »

swayvil wrote: post #444
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

Cancel culture used to be just a bear in woods. Scary but not super scary. Now it's Godzilla stomping through Seattle. It is magnified vastly by social media. That makes a big difference. And 10x that power when the engines of social media are in the hands of the cancellers, as appears to be the case.

Is it? Or are we all working off of anecdotes here. Do you have data to back that up?

Further - it was pretty scary getting cancelled by my parents and community when I came out. I’m glad it wasn’t scary for you.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#537

Post by taurath »

UncleMeat wrote: post #484
swayvil wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancel culture used to be just a bear in woods. Scary but not super scary. Now it's Godzilla stomping through Seattle. It is magnified vastly by social media. That makes a big difference. And 10x that power when the engines of social media are in the hands of the cancellers, as appears to be the case.

It was just never scary to social conservatives. Gay people got "cancelled" so hard they were thrown in jail and disowned from their families.

And laughed as 1/15 or more of a generation died from AIDS. The harm caused by the extreme right is astounding if you’re in one of the targeted groups. Someone being fired for bigoted comments when they work with minorities isn’t even in the same ballpark. And then they put up a gofundme and buy a house or get a conservative media deal.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#538

Post by danbolt »

colllectorof wrote: post #464
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

>We've always had cancel culture. It seems pretty obvious that you don't understand that any culture has norms and boundaries, but only pathological cultures become entirely reactionary and define themselves purely in terms of opposition to something. >You can go back further to McCarthyism That's exactly what we're going back to and you have to be truly blind to think this is a good thing.

I don't know if I've met or heard of anyone that defines themselves solely in a reactionary way. Maybe you could expand on some ways you're seeing that?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#539

Post by nyolfen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #474
Solvitieg wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. I recommend "The Realignment" podcast which often discusses why this shift has occurred: https://the-realignment.simplecast.com/

>>I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. The right (religious and otherwise) hasn't reduced it's policing of ideological orthodoxy at all. Now, if you threw “exclusively” into that sentence, there might be something like a point.

maybe internally, but i haven't heard of conservatives getting random kids on twitter expelled from school lately

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#540

Post by konjin »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

> Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left. We've always had cancel culture.

It's a new thing on the internet because the people who grew up here thought we'd be safe from the people who made our lives hell before university for not fitting in.

Unfortunately the unwashed masses came in and took over and are now throwing us out because we don't act like how they expect us to act.

That Stallman got cancelled for being right while everyone else who took money from a pedophile rapist got away should tell you all you need to know about the state of the internet.

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