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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#401

Post by delecti »

rrose wrote: post #214
Animats wrote: post #78

We're approaching Orwell's "Newspeak". - Idiot -> retarded -> special needs - Negro -> colored -> Black - Queer -> gay -> LGBTQ - Indian -> Amerind -> native american - Illegal immigrant -> undocumented worker - fat -> plus size - He/she -> they (singular) - bum -> homeless Using the words in the left column can get you and your writing attacked.

- retarded is a slur, people with special needs don't want to be called that. not sure why this is controversial - this is just normal language change. we use different words than we did in the 50s. - queer and gay are both still used, and in fact are both part of LGBTQ, so this doesn't actually fit the pattern youre trying to show. - native american is just a better term? indian is confusing given that there is also…

Exactly, fantastic breakdown. Whenever I see people clutching their pearls about not being able to say certain things anymore, I have to question which specific things they feel unable to say. I find that the answer is very often not something they'd get sympathy for if they were up-front about it.

Worried about the thought police? Maybe you're just a jerk and people don't want to hear your crappy opinions.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#402

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #395
dahfizz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. I found this[1] article very interesting. Basically, only 2% of American adults generate over 80% of all tweets. "Cancel Culture" really is run by a few extremists who have a loud…

That may be so, but you don’t want to end up being an unwitting victim. One of the first instances early on on Twitter was that young marketing woman going to South Africa making a sarcastic anti-racism tweet before boarding only to learn after landing a brouhaha was brewing leading to her firing because the mob wanted to see it as racist.

[deleted]

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#403

Post by xirbeosbwo1234 »

falcolas wrote: post #334
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

Frankly, who cares whether this is new or not? Why does that even matter? It's negatively affecting people (for this article, the young authors who are self-censoring), and should be fought against.

Because we have people pretending it's new so they can drum up outrage and gain power. Because we have people playing the victim after being fired for being intolerable to work with.

Most importantly, we have politicians adopting authoritarian attitudes as a reaction to it. Private companies have a right to "cancel" whomever they want, whether that takes the form of banning someone from a website or of canceling a contract. Yet certain politicians want to interfere in private websites or publishers by limiting their ability to exercise editorial control.

I don't know the situation across the pond. I'm writing from an American perspective, where the term "cancel culture" has been entirely co-opted by cynical politicians.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#404

Post by cwkoss »

jimbokun wrote: post #396
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

The concept is not new, see McCarthyism. What's new is social media's ability to amplify the voices of a small number of relatively anonymous people to "cancel" someone. McCarthyism required a Senator to have a serious impact. Now people are cancelled, without there being a clear link back to who, exactly, did the cancelling.

> the voices of a small number of relatively anonymous people

Has someone been cancelled as a purely grassroots effort before? It seems like the seeds of a cancelling may begin this way, but quasi-journalists, pundits and other online personalities are the engine that does the crucial amplification to reach broader public discourse.

I think their is an interesting sort of 'laundering' of attribution where social media power brokers can point to the seeds and say "Look at this grassroots movement that is changing the way society views X", and then the issue is broadcast to a much wider audience. However, that small grassroots movement may not have been seriously affected X except for the effects of the power brokers' pointing fingers.

It seems like these social media power brokers may not even intend to have this effect in some cases, but they are a crucial step in the cancelling lifecycle.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#405

Post by jandrese »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

On one hand I worry about this power being abused, but it's hard for me to side with the people being cancelled because they're so repugnant.

It is hard to stand up for the rights of the bigots, the white supremacists, the science deniers, the propagandists, and the misogynists. People who spent decades denying other people access and are now finding the shoe on the other foot.

Can we find some good examples of people who were "cancelled" who were not peddling conspiracy theories or pontificating about why the white race is the natural rulers of humanity?

In some ways this may be seen as a return to the media culture in the Fairness Doctrine era. It used to be that media companies had to seriously consider the viewpoints expressed and wouldn't give crackpots a voice very often. The Internet changed that, allowing everybody a voice regardless of how crazy they might be. Now we're turning back to a more metered experience as it seems that unlimited amplifying the wingnuts is actually damaging to the country.

Nobody likes the censor, but they're a necessary evil. Without them trolls will always take over the conversation once the number of participants exceeds a fairly low threshold. Trolls can drive out honest participants, but honest participants can't drive out trolls. Moderation is necessary. It doesn't have to be third party moderation, upvote/downvote systems can do the job although they're tricky to get right and can be gamed.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#406

Post by throwaway0a5e »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #230
Ekaros wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if cancelling of really big companies start to happen. Make one misstep in advertising or messaging even in past and then have people attack your partners telling them to stop associating with your brand... I wonder if we ever properly reach that level. And if after a few big attempts social media companies would put stop to that...

It happened to Goya.

Did it though. How many people actually changed their shopping habits?

Closest thing I've done to "canceling" anyone is switching from Autozone to the O'Reily 500yd down the street because the former donated to something I really don't like and the latter had better people working at that particular location anyway.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#407

Post by throwawaygh »

xenophonB wrote: post #387
throwawaygh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the general case, you're not allowed to teach at Liberty unless you're a very specific type of conservative christian. A statement of faith is a required component of the faculty application packet. The student code of conduct prohibits homosexual behavior. Passing off Liberty as a bastion of free expression because they invited Sanders to give a speech is beyond disingenuous, and a perfect example of the enormous…

one tiny college versus the other 5,000 colleges where hyper leftist values predominate! Could you be any more disingenuous? And no one has ever suggested that other groups don't engage in this sort of activity when they're in power.

> other 5,000 colleges where hyper leftist values predominate

Show me a single college with a policy that explicitly discriminates against Christians.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#408

Post by jimbokun »

hannasanarion wrote: post #247
kradeelav wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this past weekend a disabled animator was blacklisted from the industry because an ex-friend objected to their NSFW drawings on a twitter handle (completely separate from their professional handle). The number of death threats were also an immense psychological toll, and a bit more than just "being yelled at" (I am open to the fact there is a fuzzy continuum between the two). Regardless - "some companies won't w…

Are you suggesting that blacklists are a new phenomenon? "cancel culture" has always existed. The only thing that is changing is that who is "cancelled" is no longer chosen by TV producers and news editors (ie, white men), but democratically by self-directed popular discourse. In 2003 the Dixie Chicks said at a show in london, "We don't want this war, we're ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas". I…

So...sounds like you are railing against Cancel Culture and thinks it's bad?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#409

Post by cozuya »

jimbokun wrote: post #396
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

The concept is not new, see McCarthyism. What's new is social media's ability to amplify the voices of a small number of relatively anonymous people to "cancel" someone. McCarthyism required a Senator to have a serious impact. Now people are cancelled, without there being a clear link back to who, exactly, did the cancelling.

What are some examples of people being cancelled by a small amount of anonymous people? I can't think of any.

Lets looks at Gina Carano for example. She was "cancelled" (fired from her job) as the direct result of her social media posting things a large number of people found offensive and inappropriate, not a small amount. 10 anonymous people didn't cause it, hundreds of thousands of people thought it was wrong.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#410

Post by t-writescode »

jandrese wrote: post #405
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

On one hand I worry about this power being abused, but it's hard for me to side with the people being cancelled because they're so repugnant. It is hard to stand up for the rights of the bigots, the white supremacists, the science deniers, the propagandists, and the misogynists. People who spent decades denying other people access and are now finding the shoe on the other foot. Can we find some good examples of peopl…

Someone being cancelled who shouldn't have been: Monica Lewinsky.
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