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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

bbc.com

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#361

Post by fl0wenol »

mywittyname wrote: post #294
renewiltord wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the "fear of women" thing is real. At least it isn't real in SF where I've worked for the last eight years.

It's a real thing among the group of guys who exhibit creepy/abusive behavior towards women. They used to be able to get away with it, now they realize they may not be able to anymore. They aren't so much afraid of women, as they are afraid of consequences for their actions.

This, this, this a million times.

Anyone you hear complaining about it is the very kind of person who needed to be on notice in the first place.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#362

Post by mrzimmerman »

skrebbel wrote: post #277
sudosysgen wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been people getting cancelled in very large number for thousands of years. Crucially, nowadays, you can still communicate when cancelled. Perhaps to a smaller audience, but this is a necessity because of how human social interactions work.

This is just an awful argument. It's basically "things used to be worse, so you shouldn't say it's still bad".

People choosing to no longer read content from or associate with a person who expressed a controversial opinion isn't new and it isn't even bad. That's the other side of the coin of free thought: people don't have to agree with you or listen to you and they're allowed to speak out against you if they want to.

Public and professional consequences have always existed and they always should. The idea that people should be able to do anything and never suffer repercussions for their actions would lead to an unhealthy world.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#363

Post by throwawaygh »

core-questions wrote: post #327
throwawaygh wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's not pretend that you are allowed to teach at Harvard, at least in certain departments, without a very specific political leaning. And certain other political leanings are not allowed in any department. I can't speak to all of Harvard's departments, but I know it's completely possible to have a wide variety of political viewpoints in SEAS. The faculty itself is probably to the right of the immediately surround…

> but I know it's completely possible to have a wide variety of political viewpoints in SEAS What _you_ and Harvard in general think of as a wide variety of political viewpoints, and what _actually_ constitutes a wide variety, are likely very different things.

I grew up in bright red land, the sort of community where one is obligated to go to church when visiting home and folks notice if you don’t. Shooting clay follows the Easter egg hunt. Gay marriage is sinful and we all learned in Sunday school that Rome fell because of the bathhouses.

I know well what a wide variety of political viewpoints looks like, because I’ve lived in at least three extremes. Have you?

Harvard’s faculty is left of center in aggregate (did I ever say otherwise?) but they aren’t uniformly radical and there are a lot of moderates and conservatives in the ranks.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#364

Post by fl0wenol »

jbob2000 wrote: post #48
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

The problem with cancel culture is much the same as the problem I'm having with my QA department: We have a very small, rock solid front end. Most of our work is simply updating content. It's very straightforward work and you have to try very hard to introduce bugs. But when you staff a team of 6 people and tell them "it's your job to find something wrong with this website", they WILL find something wrong. I have a m…

r/Shuffles_Deck more like r/thathappened and everyone clapped

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#365

Post by dragonwriter »

techer wrote: post #359
missedthecue wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took effort to find him, and it was possible. But he wasn't public about his identity prior to this, and in fact was making a deliberate effort to mask it. just because someone with a lot of time on their hands could technically have found his real name does not conflict with the parent's point.

Well. I said he was known. Not publicly known. From his hand: “To stay anonymous, I wrote it under my first and middle names – Scott Alexander – while leaving out my last name.” This is hardly a major attempt at anonymity. Not that it matters but I’m very much in favour of remaining anonymous. I also am a fan of his writing.

> This is hardly a major attempt at anonymity.

Well, it's an attempt at pseudonymity, not anonymity.

And it's a pretty weak attempt at that, too.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#366

Post by throwawaygh »

edbob wrote: post #281
throwawaygh wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find this trend on the left morally unfortunate, historically out-of-character, and strategically flawed. My point here is not to defend cancel culture, but rather to point out that something like it has always existed and still exists on the right. IMO the only solution is everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente. I'm not holding my breath, but step zero is both sides reali…

I completely agree that there are problems on both sides, but I don't see how your reasoning encourages "everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente". On the contrary, progressives seem to see "the right has oppressed people" as a mandate to do everything they can to make war on the right and even moderate positions (because moderate positions are characterized as dog whistles that co…

GP comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306326

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#367

Post by c06n »

standardUser wrote: post #350
c06n wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's underground today? Genuinely curious.

In the realm of music, I think the mainstream has stayed roughly the same size but the rest of music has exploded in size and variety via Spotify/Bandcamp/Soundcloud/YouTube. Instead of zines there's a million or so blogs and forums and newsletters. Podcasts are an entirely new realm and only a tiny sliver of it cracks the mainstream. The number of outlets for "TV shows" has exploded, so there's plenty that comes and…

Good point, but I am not sure how much weight it carries. Safety in numbers? You are fine as long as you don't offend anybody?

Have we accepted censorship just like that? What is next, coded language to escape the thugs?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#368

Post by ausbah »

Animats wrote: post #78

We're approaching Orwell's "Newspeak". - Idiot -> retarded -> special needs - Negro -> colored -> Black - Queer -> gay -> LGBTQ - Indian -> Amerind -> native american - Illegal immigrant -> undocumented worker - fat -> plus size - He/she -> they (singular) - bum -> homeless Using the words in the left column can get you and your writing attacked.

queer and gay are still identities within the LGBTQ spectrum, what do you think the Q and G are for

and they over he / she is just a nicer way, gender-neutral of writing when referring to any person

no information or differing perspectives are lost in using these "new" words. I don't think you know what "Newspeak" means

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#369

Post by c06n »

throwawaygh wrote: post #232
c06n wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to feel to belong to "The Left" (whatever that is) precisely because it did not do these things. Now it does, and sees it even as a moral imperative to do so. I'm on the autism spectrum, as are many others around here. Social rules are hard in the best of times. Now they are impossible to follow, and breaking them is outright dangerous. But I can keep to myself, I guess I'll be fine.

I also find this trend on the left morally unfortunate, historically out-of-character, and strategically flawed. My point here is not to defend cancel culture, but rather to point out that something like it has always existed and still exists on the right. IMO the only solution is everyone realizing this fact and explicitly agreeing to some form of detente. I'm not holding my breath, but step zero is both sides reali…

If you need to appeal to the goodness of people's hearts, you know you've lost.

The age of Enlightement and the idea of liberalism have been so powerful because they programmatically went against any kind of censorship. Their ideas helped to see how humans are truly all equal, that we all share what it means to be human.

Identity politics set out to destroy these ideas. It is the enemy of liberalism, of a free flow of ideas, of a will to see us all as equals. It divides us into groups, based on biological features like the color of our skin, our age and our genitals.

This insanity will not end well.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#370

Post by jjk166 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #284
jjk166 wrote: post #251

If you're not willing to stand by your opinion and face the consequences of sharing it, how important is your opinion really? Intellectual progress demands that ideas distasteful to the status quo must be openly discussable, but some stakes are necessary to keep those who have carefully thought out their positions and thus hold them with conviction from being drowned out by those who merely parrot ridiculous talking…

Ah yes Thomas Paine published nothing of worth because nobody took "Common Sense" seriously since they were anonymous leaflets.... Anominity has nothing to do with how well considered something is - there was an improved lower bound on 4Chan as a source and many publishing absolute nonsense under their real name as a lucrative careers. There is no neccessity - only the whinging of those upset they arr no longer able…

I'm not arguing against anonymity. I published that comment under a pseudonym myself. I am criticizing people who will disavow what they wrote if they are called out on it.

That said, documents with the ol' John Hancock have most certainly carried more weight historically.

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