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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#341

Post by heterodoxxed »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #321
heterodoxxed wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| This is truly the dark age of the information era. I think statements like this are hysterical and ahistorical. The amount of actual censorship and the way moral panics occurred throughout history make twitter dogpiling look absolutely quaint in comparison. I don't disagree with Kazuo Ishiguro one bit, but I think all it means is that authors need to get thicker skin, because unlike the past, they can read their re…

"I think statements like this are hysterical and ahistorical." I find this line of defense interesting. Can you elaborate a little further, because I would want to avoid putting words in your mouth? Are suggesting that the overall volume of censorship is lower so it can be ignored and explained away? I find your perspective somewhat fascinating.

Anyone who thinks there is more censorship today can only believe that by ignoring the vastly greater censorship that has historically existed.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#342

Post by whimsicalism »

undefined1 wrote: post #337
dash2 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dark age of thought" would be excessive (and is maybe a straw man). But there's plenty of people being cancelled: https://www.afaf.org.uk/the-banned-list/ https://sutherlandhousebooks.com/who-cancel/

I'm not sure that is an excessive description anymore. Jerry Seinfeld, a mainstream comedian, stopped playing at college campuses years ago already because he was getting picked apart and no longer welcome. at precisely the place that is supposed to be the most transgressive and open to ideas! a place to expand minds, remember? now it fully embraces orthodoxy and censorship. or take the case of Bret Weinstein. a libe…

I think what people need to understand is that there are dumb people on all sides of every movement every time in history.

Someone calling you a eugenicist is not a "cancellation." Moreover, Weinstein was not fired, and has an arguably more distinguished career now than before.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#343

Post by rapind »

bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

Voicing an unpopular opinion always had a cost, today and hundreds of years ago. Either your conviction outweighs the consequences or it doesn’t.

We shouldn’t assume that all or even most unpopular opinions will advance our intellectual progress. Like always there’s plenty of noise.

I’m not keen on the automated (AI) filtering though, or how fast opinions can spread in the Information Age. Feels like we’re headed for disaster by skipping the organic and slow human vetting process.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#344

Post by jfengel »

dahfizz wrote: post #46
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

> Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. I found this[1] article very interesting. Basically, only 2% of American adults generate over 80% of all tweets. "Cancel Culture" really is run by a few extremists who have a loud…

It's not even clear that those extremists have a louder voice in and of themselves. Nobody really listens to them except their opponents, who amplify them because they think it makes the entire progressive culture look bad.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#345

Post by prepend »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

I think it will look like it is now. Long running private thread that aren’t open to new people.

I stopped using FB years ago, but have messenger groups that are super active and have been private for years.

I wonder how new people will “find the others” for how the web was so great. But I’ve met young people who do the same thing with their friends.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#346

Post by dragonwriter »

skrebbel wrote: post #277
sudosysgen wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been people getting cancelled in very large number for thousands of years. Crucially, nowadays, you can still communicate when cancelled. Perhaps to a smaller audience, but this is a necessity because of how human social interactions work.

This is just an awful argument. It's basically "things used to be worse, so you shouldn't say it's still bad".

> This is just an awful argument. It's basically "things used to be worse, so you shouldn't say it's still bad".

No, the argument is “things used to be more extreme in this precise area, so the argument that the present situation is a new and unique historical threat is false”.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#347

Post by throwaway894345 »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #338
throwaway894345 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calling Biden into question (which anyone on the left would do) is risking your career. Who has ever been fired for supporting Sanders over Biden? > Twitter bans leftist accounts all the time as well. Probably not because they were leftist, but rather because they violated some rule (and at that, probably only a small fraction of Tweets which violate their rules). Twitter is pretty happy to fill my timeline with th…

We live in a capitalist system, so yes the capitalists have a massive amount of power over our lives. People self-censor all the time, it's not just about getting fired.

It’s not “just” about getting fired, but termination is the minimum required evidence to support the claim that criticizing Biden (for being insufficiently leftist) would put one’s career in jeopardy.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#348

Post by carlio »

silentsea90 wrote: post #25
sosuke wrote: post #2

I thought this was the reason authors often use pen names. Creating an entirely anonymous identity isn't easy but it is nice to screw up safely.

Just need a bit of NLP to figure out identity from writing style, similar to how JK Rowling's pseudonymous identity was uncovered.

That's true if you're an established author and create a new itentity. If you've never published fiction though, there'd be no corpus to train on. What the article is saying is is that it's difficult for new artists to establish themselves, but in this case, I think psuedoanonymity is a good idea if you have any topics or ideas that you worry would cause a backlash.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#349

Post by weeblewobble »

bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

This seems to sort of elide the extremely popular and lucrative media ecosystem of the "IDW"/"free speech movement"/anti-woke movement.

Certainly it's true that the Overton window has shifted in large sections of the legacy media, but the Overton window always existed. The idea that its illegitimate for a private organization to shift their personal Overton window seems vaguely authoritarian to me.

Anyway it's never been easier to grow, reach, and monetize your personal audience (substack, podcasts, etc.) without gatekeepers.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#350

Post by standardUser »

c06n wrote: post #167
standardUser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no lack of dissenting opinions to be found outside of the mainstream (the same place where punk once existed exclusively). Cancel culture is primarily a problem with mainstream/pop culture. The "underground" today is more vast and diverse than it has ever been.

What's underground today? Genuinely curious.

In the realm of music, I think the mainstream has stayed roughly the same size but the rest of music has exploded in size and variety via Spotify/Bandcamp/Soundcloud/YouTube.

Instead of zines there's a million or so blogs and forums and newsletters.

Podcasts are an entirely new realm and only a tiny sliver of it cracks the mainstream.

The number of outlets for "TV shows" has exploded, so there's plenty that comes and goes without any significant mainstream exposure.

Much of the above is created on an enthusiasts budget for a tiny audience.

And I'd argue a lot of the above are exempt from "cancel culture" if only because most people don't know they exist.

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