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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#211

Post by artificial »

jpxw wrote: post #73
silicon2401 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything rises and falls. Even in the west we've had the inquisition, the Stasi in the DDR, McCarthyism in the US. Hopefully the modern trend towards censorship and rightthink will encourage the future generations to appreciate freedom of speech and ideas

The worrying thing, to me, is that it’s the young who are pushing this. Previously it was old conservatives, who were on the way out anyway. It’s different now.

I recall the scares about D&D and Satanism back in the day. The shoe is on the other foot now, weirdly backed by the corporations. Do you think it's organic or inculcated?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#212

Post by fallingknife »

throwawaygh wrote: post #174
fallingknife wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all nobody is saying its good when right wingers do it. But here is Bernie Sanders invited to make a speech at the right wing Liberty University: https://www.vox.com/2015/9/14/9323041/bernie-sanders-liberty...

In the general case, you're not allowed to teach at Liberty unless you're a very specific type of conservative christian. A statement of faith is a required component of the faculty application packet. The student code of conduct prohibits homosexual behavior. Passing off Liberty as a bastion of free expression because they invited Sanders to give a speech is beyond disingenuous, and a perfect example of the enormous…

First of all I never said or implied that it was a "bastion of free speech"

> In the general case, you're not allowed to teach at Liberty unless you're a very specific type of conservative christian.

Let's not pretend that you are allowed to teach at Harvard, at least in certain departments, without a very specific political leaning. And certain other political leanings are not allowed in any department.

> A statement of faith is a required component of the faculty application packet.

UC requires a mandatory "diversity statement" for faculty job applications:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/11/19/mathematician...

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#213

Post by toomim »

RobLach wrote: post #114
bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

Hardly so. There's ample evidence that the current is the greatest opportunity for dissenting thought and opinion to have massive reach without much consequence or effort. The idea that we're in a dark age of thought is purely rhetorical and only serves to frame a narrative that further amplifies ideas that would never had a chance to propagate before the information era. Furthermore, we are living in a time of such…

This is very well-put! But how do you reconcile this with people losing or being suspended from their jobs, for instance, for what they say? [1] [2]

It's hard to say that these people don't have the conviction to stand by their ideas. They are losing the right to speak in front of others because they are standing by their ideas.

[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/09/08/professor-sus...

[2] https://www.bschools.org/blog/ucla-anderson-professor-suspen...

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#214

Post by rrose »

Animats wrote: post #78

We're approaching Orwell's "Newspeak". - Idiot -> retarded -> special needs - Negro -> colored -> Black - Queer -> gay -> LGBTQ - Indian -> Amerind -> native american - Illegal immigrant -> undocumented worker - fat -> plus size - He/she -> they (singular) - bum -> homeless Using the words in the left column can get you and your writing attacked.

- retarded is a slur, people with special needs don't want to be called that. not sure why this is controversial

- this is just normal language change. we use different words than we did in the 50s.

- queer and gay are both still used, and in fact are both part of LGBTQ, so this doesn't actually fit the pattern youre trying to show.

- native american is just a better term? indian is confusing given that there is also a country called "india"

- can a person be "illegal"? undocumented worker is just a more correct term.

- this and the undocumented worker one are probably the only ones in here that actually fit the pattern youre trying to show.

- people ask not to be called he/she and we oblige. I don't see how this is similar to newspeak.

- bum is clearly a pejorative term, and because many of us don't dislike homeless people a priori, we don't use this term.

there's nothing sinister going on here. It's crazy to me that people are really clutching their pearls over not being able to call people "retards" and "negroes"

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#215

Post by whimsicalism »

ghaff wrote: post #146
omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is this had been around for a while, and what people are calling "cancel culture" is the same old-same old, but with (hopefully) less prison/death. There's nothing new about receiving negative feedback for having and expressing unpopular opinions. That's really common in pretty much every single social group I've been in, including on HN.

There's also a difference between saying something stupid and having some people telling you to knock it off. And posting it or having it posted to Twitter with a possible consequence like a bunch of people emailing your employer demanding you be fired. Which they probably will because it's easier that way if you really did say something you shouldn't have.

If you had a gay character in a sitcom in the 70s-80s you would similarly get a bunch of people calling your employer.

There's totally a difference, but you honestly think that this is a new thing that never used to happen?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#216

Post by [deleted] »

kradeelav wrote: post #170
standardUser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

Just this past weekend a disabled animator was blacklisted from the industry because an ex-friend objected to their NSFW drawings on a twitter handle (completely separate from their professional handle). The number of death threats were also an immense psychological toll, and a bit more than just "being yelled at" (I am open to the fact there is a fuzzy continuum between the two). Regardless - "some companies won't w…

[deleted]

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#217

Post by wcarss »

Animats wrote: post #78

We're approaching Orwell's "Newspeak". - Idiot -> retarded -> special needs - Negro -> colored -> Black - Queer -> gay -> LGBTQ - Indian -> Amerind -> native american - Illegal immigrant -> undocumented worker - fat -> plus size - He/she -> they (singular) - bum -> homeless Using the words in the left column can get you and your writing attacked.

When did you honestly reach for 'Negro' and feel impeded?

In my opinion, trying to use less intentionally hurtful terms when identifying other human beings seems a far cry from erasing all 'potentially dangerous' concepts from our thoughts, even things as mundane as the word 'bad'.

But, uh, interesting list of specific gripes.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#218

Post by sgift »

People always self-censored. Far worse, people were censored. Really censored, not "oh, I cannot write on my platform of choice, so I have to use another one which can reach the whole world" censored. You wrote something the people in charge didn't like? No distribution for you, cause all printing was censored. You wrote against your king? Prison for you. You were politically inconvenient for your patron? Hope you have fun on the streets. Your book wasn't like by the book publishers? Sucks to be you. Probably ended up as an unread manuscript in an attic. Oh, and to mirror the words of the article: There were (and are, though less common) real lynch mobs when someone wrote something people didn't like. I have a feeling they are a bit more scary than getting screamed at on Twitter.

Fact: It was never as easy as it is today to reach an audience. All the people who have been "cancelled" or whatever the word of the week is, they still have reach people in ages ago would have killed for. Some even got bigger audiences because they were "cancelled". If you self-censor that is a decision. Maybe it is a wise decision. But is it not something people never had to deal with before.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#219

Post by wrycoder »

robotresearcher wrote: post #186
phendrenad2 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love examples of popularly-disapproved-of speech that is flourishing online, and not banned and cancelled at every juncture.

Fox News. They regularly have people on expressing minority views that directly contest facts accepted by the majority of the US and the world.

There is a movement, extending even to Congress, to take Fox News off the air, or to have ISPs block it.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#220

Post by artificial »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #202
jpxw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worrying thing, to me, is that it’s the young who are pushing this. Previously it was old conservatives, who were on the way out anyway. It’s different now.

Cancel culture is mostly millennial-led. Gen Z seems to take it as the status quo, and we'll see what they do with it when they have power.

Cancel culture is McCarthyism, just driven by the left. Millenials are barely in power. I'd say GenX has more of a say.
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