Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear' • Hacker News Board

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#81

Post by sleepysysadmin » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

>It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions.

Cancel culture coming for me yet? No? Obama and Trump have condemned it and here we are.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#82

Post by subsubzero » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

I think that in 50 years, maybe even 20 years cancel culture will be looked at a low point in the culture of the US and its adherents will try to disassociate themselves with it by saying thats how people thought/acted back then(popular sentiment). Similar to McCarthyism and its blacklists which ruined actors/directors, that moment is taught in history books as a backwards time, cancel culture will be similar.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#83

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

Not sure a 66 year old can truly understand what consequences young people can face. You can be completely blacklisted not only from your works being stocked, but even all means of promoting yourself too and in the most extreme cases get blacklisted from payment processors which I'm sure will trickle down and become more common over the next few years.

End of the day you have to pay the bills and if you want them paid you have to at least make your writing a certain way of thinking and ideology.

Until this changes this is terrible advice for young artists. Just don't rock the boat, follow right think, don't write anything controversial and pray you eventually get enough money to write what you actually want to write.

Sure yeah art will suffer as a whole but the decision was already made what's more important, art or a few annoyed people on twitter and the annoyed people won.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#84

Post by dahfizz » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #27

bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

It depends entirely on what you mean by "unpopular opinions". You would face backlash in the 80's if you advocated overthrowing the government. Today, you can lose your job for not having your gender pronouns in your bio. I don't think its fair to equate both of those things as "unpopular opinions".

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#85

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

heterodoxxed wrote: post #74

bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

| This is truly the dark age of the information era. This is nonsense. Losing your audience has always been a concern for authors and it is easier to get an audience now than it has ever been.

It is not easy if popular platforms are pressured to not do business with you, because vocal minority deem you unfit to be published.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#86

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

c06n wrote: post #55

standardUser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

And fired from your job. And yelled at on the street. And prevented from working in your field ever again. And death threats. So, blacklisting: check. Excommunication: check. I'd rather not wait till it goes down further.

[deleted]

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#87

Post by adolph » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #27

bitcharmer wrote: post #5

It's really sad that in the age of unrestricted access to information public discourse is self-restricting to avoid wrong-think and dissenting opinions. If you look at the history of intellectual progress, much of it was exactly due to unpopular opinions. Now by having one you're risking your entire career and sometimes more. This is truly the dark age of the information era.

There is no era of Western history where unpopular opinions were more acceptable than today. In the past, dissenting opinions voiced loudly were often punished by blacklisting or excommunication or prison or death. Now, you get yelled at on Twitter and some companies won't work with you.

Maybe there is a higher awareness of the costs imposed by censors and as the censorship encoded in government recedes that of private realms is brought more into light.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#88

Post by waserwill » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

I understand the source of people's fears here, though I'm not sure whether they are justified. In attempting to clearly articulate ideas, writers too often fall into cliches--the sort of pitfall that might be widely understood at the expense of predictability. Those, coupled with topics related to current events and sensitive topics, can be a dangerous brew.

Yet in a world where media are not centrally controlled (cf. N Korea), ideas can propagate without being direct. Philosophers and heretics have written indirectly for millennia to avoid being read by the authorities or by the public; even the Soviets were accompanied by a thriving culture of satirical literature (and more importantly, jokes/anecdotes) that were allegorical yet far-reaching. If there are meaningful truths that must be said, there is a way to say them without being blunt about it.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#89

Post by _f1dq » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #9

I find it almost funny how the media/culture/etc. seems determined to build a group of people that will react negatively to so-called "cancel culture." They seem to think that people will gladly follow the ever-growing list of arbitrary rules indefinitely. If I were a betting man, I'd predict a resurgence in punk attitudes in about 2025 or 2030. At some point, the dam will break and people will stop caring. I already…

Wow, you bring up a point I had never considered which is; we've seen this before. In the 1950's and 1960's, you kind-of had to tow the line in what you said, how you dressed, etc... The cancelling wasn't quite as broad as it can be now simply because it wasn't technically feasible back then. You could, however, be in real danger of losing your job if you said you supported a registered Communist's right to speak their mind, for example. Or if you were openly a Communist yourself for that matter.

As you point out, the punk era was in direct opposition of those attitudes. Punks wanted the freedom to express themselves however they wished, as long as it wasn't harming anyone. Want to do make music that is raw and in your face? Go for it. Want to do drugs or even NOT do drugs of any kind? (Straight Edge) You're cool too. Just don't tell me what I need to do or what I can or can't say.

I think you're right that we very well may see a resurgence of that. In fact, I hope we do.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#90

Post by DanBC » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

silentsea90 wrote: post #25

sosuke wrote: post #2

I thought this was the reason authors often use pen names. Creating an entirely anonymous identity isn't easy but it is nice to screw up safely.

Just need a bit of NLP to figure out identity from writing style, similar to how JK Rowling's pseudonymous identity was uncovered.

Rowling's identity was uncovered when a family friend of her solicitors tweeted it out.

> The Harry Potter author released her first Robert Galbraith novel, The Cuckoo’s Calling, in April 2013 under the guise of a very British sounding man who was said to have previously served in the army. But her nom-de-plume was uncovered three months later after an indiscreet tweet divulging the true identity of Galbraith was sent by “@JudeCallegari”, a family friend of Christopher Gossage, a partner at Rowling’s solicitors.

Some people would suggest that the book was doing poorly, and needed a sales bump.