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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

residentcontrarian.substack.com

441–450 of 920 posts

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I become more wealthy, I have started to tackle problems that I never really thought about when I wasn't as well off, things that cropped up when I thought I'd finally have peace of mind. In retrospect, the insecurity was always there, but I had the luxury of ignoring it when I was poorer. Once I started making enough not to worry about rent, the problem was then saving enough for things like retirement, setting u…

Just remember that your anxieties are child's play compared to the anxieties of people worrying every day about paying for their place to live, food or health care. These worries are tally different.

This kind of dismissive attitude toward peoples' problems is unhelpful. Following your line of reasoning, there are people with crippling diseases in the world. People worrying about a place to live etc should remember that their problems are child's play compared to theirs. And those people should remember their problems are child's play compared to someone being targeted by genocide.

There are nearly 8 billion people in the world. You can always find someone worse off, that doesn't mean people are undeserving of empathy if they aren't the one single worse off human being. This sort of worst-off competition is dehumanizing.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they would need to have inherited to feel financially secure It seems ridiculous to most of us, but I can see how it happens. I grew up pretty poor - my father was a police officer and my mother didn't work because she had to watch the four of us. But I graduated with a degree in CS in '95 (if you're thinking about graduating with a degree in CS, try to do it in '95 because that may be the best possible year to do…

The average software engineer makes around 100k. If you have been working for 20+ years, has it been difficult for you to save up enough money for college?

I would argue that it's hard to save enough for college at any income, due to need-based financial aid (aka perfect price discrimination by ogopolists). Most need-based systems take into account parents' income and college savings, and children of software engineers in particular are going to be near the part of the curve where that starts to bite.

I randomly chose Princeton's financial aid calculator because it was close to the top of Google. For a family with two working parents, two kids (one entering college), and $250k in home equity in Illinois (the middle of the USA):

* For a $100k/year SWE + a $25k/year something else and no college savings the expected family contribution is $30k/year

* The same family with $250k saved in a 529 college savings plan is $45k/year

* For a $125k/year SWE + a $50k/year something else and no college savings the expected contribution is $50k/year

* The same family with $250k saved in a 529 college savings plan is $66k/year

* The same family with $450k in home equity is expected to pay $75k/year (I guess you're expected to take out a home equity loan to pay for college).

* Make the family renters with $50k/year income (30k+20k), and their contribution drops to $4.4k/year.

The point is: The more you save, the more you need to save. And the more you make, the more you need to make.

That's not to say need-based tuition is bad policy. But, it does mean that "surely it's easy to pay for college with your level of income" doesn't really come into play until you reach the top 1-2% of income.

Everyone below that is going to have their tuition adjusted to make the out of pocket cost painful but bearable, and the average SWE isn't a 1%-er.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#443
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story I'm now late 30s; father left when i was 2 died of aids when I was 6 Mother washed dishes then was unemployed from age 12-now and we bounced around her boyfriends houses My metric (edit: for myself) "have you been poor" is gathering extra condiments from a gas station and having mustard on bread for a meal. We had food stamps, and a small social security check. I always had a bed, and food, but barely a…

Equity should operate just as much, if not more so, by boosting people up than by cutting people down. It should also favor the individual and small business over large megacorporations. I fear that the concept of equity presents a real possibility of a race to the bottom if we're not careful to prevent a Harrison Bergeron situation. That doesn't mean I think we should avoid equity, just that we should be cognizant o…

Your fear is well-founded, that's already what is happening. Boston Public Schools, for example, just suspended placements in AP courses for all students out of equity concerns.

It turns out it's much easier to achieve equity by pushing people down (no more AP courses for anyone) than by lifting people up (getting more black and latino students into AP courses).

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#444
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very much the trend I saw over the 2000s-2010s. Most of the people in my personal cohort - with university degrees and good careers - have no problem living a good life in the US. But with the rapid inflation of the cost of healthcare, higher education and housing, I wonder how that lifestyle can possibly become accessible to people who weren't essentially born into it. I know many people who were born into a…

In my peer group people are focusing on the monthly payments, rather than the loan amount. And mortgage rates are like half what they were in the last housing bubble https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US

My peer group is probably a bit younger, and they/I are all renting or are relatively new homeowners. The "sticker price" on houses matters to my group a lot, as does monthly rent.

I'd love to find a FRED-like data source for median rental rates over time and/or an index thereof. I suspect that rents are generally correlated with sale prices on a multi-year time scale.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#445

The part about cars is pretty spot on, I'm upper middle class and I've been able to save so much money by getting rid of my car. On the low end you're going to hit 300 to 500 dollars a month for the privilege of driving. The problem here is America simply isn't built for public transit. But since cars are a status symbol, people still go down to Toyota, or Honda and as long as they can make that first down payment th…

I used to take public transportation that took 2 hours each way to get to my job. Then I bought my first car for $500. It was such great freedom.

Then, years later, I moved to the city and was able to get rid of my car. It was great freedom.

Then, years later, I got married and had a child. We bought and owned two cars. It was great freedom.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#446
I had no money and no resources as a child. I lived in a family of 8. We went clothes shopping once a year. Being one of the youngest, I just got hand-me-downs mostly. The first time I got a new sweater I was 14.

We had 3 books in the house growing up, all gifts from our 'city cousins' at Christmas. We had no TV until Dad brought one home from the TV repair shop - a 10-inch black and white deal. It smoked and dripped plastic on the floor first time we turned it on. Dad took it back and they gave us another one, which actually worked sort of. We did not live on a bus route, have any parks to play in, or any public library.

Were we poor? I suppose we might think so today. But all our neighbors were in about the same situation. We were happy, and didn't consider ourselves deprived in any way.

What made us content? We lived on a farm. There was always meat in the freezer and food on the table. We had the entire outdoors to play in including an ancient barn, a shop with tools and a workbench. Chickens and pigs and calves and cats and kittens. Tree swings and trees I could climb so high, I could see clear to the horizon. Creeks with frogs and fish and tadpoles.

I see folks living in cement boxes in crowded towns, kids who's entire life is the sidewalk and the mall. Parents working so hard you never see them. People next door so isolated you can't really call them neighbors.

When I grew up and went to college (full student loans, qualified for everything they had) and got a job in town and got married, I told my wife we had to raise the kids outside of town. Out of all that cement and worry. And we did.

We gave them a shop and motorized vehicles to maintain (mower, tractor, carts, bikes). Gardens to tend and cats to feed. Neighbors to visit and chores to do.

It was different from my growing up. They had hundreds of books and an unlimited budget for new ones. They had good schools and involved parents. But it also had the advantages I had. They could run heedless through the wide boundaries we set. They could spend a summer day on projects or books or Scouts or building something. Or just wander the creek and collect tadpoles.

I worry most of us are confused about what's important, and spend so much time pursuing somebody else's goals we forget to have any of our own.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'm upper middle class and I've been able to save so much money by getting rid of my car. Because you probably have job at a desk with a computer. You don't physically do much and so your per-minute presence at work isn't mandatory. If you are a few minutes late the world is not going to end and your workday rarely starts before 5am. You can handle the ins and outs of public transportation and/or you can afford to…

What about a motorcycle? Cheaper and insurance not required.

I prefer to keep my insides on the inside.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#449
I just watched episode 4 of Atlanta last night and Donald Glover's character had a really good monologue about being poor after finding out his friend had helped him turn 190$ into 2000$ but that it wouldn't be available right away:

Earn Marks: Poor people don't have time for investments, because poor people are too busy trying not to be poor. Okay? I need to eat today, not in September.

Full scene is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hOCjX_SSXY&ab_channel=ThaiM...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#450
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow former-poor here. It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. I hear things get said by people that are so far from the orbit of my reality and I cringe. Reading the article was really eye opening for me because I hadn't thought of all of the life s…

> It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. Shadow really though? I'm super glad everything came through my own work, I'd hate if my parents gave me anything. I hate spending any money, to me that is just sensible though not a problem.

I’m also very pleased with the results I seem to have wrought myself (with help of course), but I always notice that I’m a bit behind the curve compared to people getting ahead in the workforce, adulting with home refinancing or retirement, entering Ivy league direct from high school, or in high school, the students that seemed to know which classes to take, or what AP was (I took 3 while my peers averaged 6-7 AP courses). Same for sports. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s noticeable when you have parents that can’t help you and while I’m very capable of learning all of these things on my own, and I have, I’m no match for folks basically speed-leveling early in life.

Also wrt money, I always hated spending it, and really hated debt/interest. Now I find myself very willing to spend money on actually useful things like gear and tools, lest the power of money, or my ability to earn it, diminishes in the future.

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