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Little League wants all your information

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Re: Little League wants all your information

#181

Post by topkai22 »

Teever wrote: post #164
andrewguenther wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pen and paper, the way most organizing was done before the digital age. You went to a community center, signed your kids up. Can you imagine organizing 18 kids without all these devices? Little League has been around since 1939, the need for a coordinating organization isn't a recent change.

I read in a history book that human beings managed to coordinate entire empires that stretched across continents with out digital electronics. Facetiousness aside, I'm flabbergasted that I'm reading people on HN defend these kinds of abhorrent data collection and retention polices and using the difficulties of coordinating 18 people as an excuse for them. It's like some cyber stockholm syndrome where people feel the…

To be clear, I’m not defending the collection of the data; that’s stupid, and is a good example why there should legislative minimum fines for data breaches and bond requirements to process certain types of data, as well as standardized privacy policies and regulation

However, the comment I was responding to was regarding the need to have any coordination at all. It’s good and right that these organizations exist, they just don’t need to collect PII as described in the article.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#182

Post by jancsika »

mikeiz404 wrote: post #158
jancsika wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Age is very important for leveling kids appropriately and keeping them safe, which is why birth certificates are required — parents are insane and go to extreme lengths (I personally encountered forged documents, parents who delayed entry into kindergarten to age 6, bogus documents from siblings or cousins, etc) to try to let older kids play in younger levels. This being HN, I figure I can make this criticism and b…

So while this is pretty accurate I think the last part could be said more nicely. I get why you’re upset / impassioned, I am too about this in general, but I believe the person you are replying to was acting in good faith and giving a perspective most of us here do not have. From a more pragmatic perspective this behavior discourages others, both directly and indirectly, from contributing in the future for fear of sa…

Fair point. Let me try again:

That ToS is dangerous and should be changed ASAP.

If OP knows the inner workings of Little League well enough to claim that the ToS is a case of overly-broad boilerplate, OP can message someone relevant in the org to tell them to change it so it isn't as dangerous.

That doesn't address the broader problem of whether the data really is kept safe. But it at least raises the cost to someone who is considering (or already has considered) mining that data.

I have a difficult time believing that an org with a non-negligible number of participants willing to risk harm to 8 year-olds for the benefit of their 11 year-old would have zero participants willing to leverage an overly-broad ToS for personal gain.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#183

Post by smcl »

throwawayboise wrote: post #48
pridkett wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s referring to strict background checks for the volunteers.

Yes thanks to Larry Nassir and Jerry Sandusky every volunteer parent on every youth sports club is seen as a potential pedophile. Mandatory background checks, mandatory training on bullying, harassment, hazing, physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, and sexual misconduct is now required. It has really made it much more difficult for leagues to get volunteers because though many parents want to help, most don'…

It’s much more widespread than just those two cases. I know that the Scottish FA recently issued a report into historic abuse and it seems a few clubs had problems over the years. I imagine that this is not something limited to these few clubs in this one small country, and that it’s happened this way over the world.

I understand that some of the stuff required for this person to get their kid involved in Little League seemed over the top, but let’s not downplay the risks of involving adult coaches and volunteers without checks or turn a blind eye to what has happened in the past.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-56019232

Re: Little League wants all your information

#184

Post by caturopath »

watwut wrote: post #165
caturopath wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports leagues have been a thing for generations, so it's worth noting that the answer to "What did you do before all this digital stuff" isn't "kids just did their own thing" -- they still organized leagues. (Fewer of them, to be sure.)

If I recall right, sports leagues are a thing of 20centure. It was not much of a thing before. It may or may not qualify as "generations".

Many of the kids in little league today had grandparents and even great grandparents who did little league.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#185

Post by [deleted] »

pessimizer wrote: post #175
hammock wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative is to redact any unnecessary information. More people should know/do this. Proof of residency should only require state or zip code. Send in a DL with everything but your name and state blacked out. If they push back, then they will be forced to justify why they need the other info. Remember they rely on your league fees to exist. Much better to push back directly than to cry foul/play a victim/complai…

Much better to not push back directly and to cry foul/play a victim/complain anonymously unless you want to draw attention to yourself, get banned, and make getting unbanned a second part-time job. > they will be forced to justify why they need the other info. This is a fantasy. Pushing to this extent is not putting your kid into Little League, it's making arguing with Little League a lifestyle and personality. You r…

[deleted]

Re: Little League wants all your information

#186

Post by throwawaygulf »

thih9 wrote: post #169
alisonkisk wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what fraud means. If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud.

> If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud. Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. > That's not what fraud means. Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you?

>Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud.

Yes really. Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas.

>Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you?

It's not what it means according to me, it's the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud". Changing or redacting documents without the intention of defrauding is by definition not fraud. QED.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#187

Post by toomanybeersies »

aiisahik wrote: post #55

Speaking as someone who is has done this in their career, the data trove here would be extremely easy to monetize. No Hedge fund / Fintech company would ever turn this kinda data down the yearly licensing fee would def be in the millions. Not saying that they are doing this now but remember that once you submit this data that's going to be with LL for a long time. If they run into some situation in a few years and fi…

My guess would be that they haven't outsourced it because it would've been more difficult to go through the acquisition process than to simply an in house dev to build an upload form and do manual verification on the uploaded documents.

If that is the case, then I'd be less worried about Little League selling children's personal data, and more concerned that it's all sitting unencrypted in an S3 bucket.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#188

Post by thih9 »

throwawaygulf wrote: post #186
thih9 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud. Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. > That's not what fraud means. Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you?

>Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. Yes really. Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas. >Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you? It's not what it means according to me, it's the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud". Changing or redacting documents without the intention of defrauding is by defi…

> Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas.

It seems you’ve misunderstood my earlier comment.

> the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud"

Defining “fraud” with “defraud” feels a bit circular.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#189

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

caturopath wrote: post #184
watwut wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall right, sports leagues are a thing of 20centure. It was not much of a thing before. It may or may not qualify as "generations".

Many of the kids in little league today had grandparents and even great grandparents who did little league.

1970s: Our rural town had a little league field. Up by me was another plot of cleared land where we hillbillies would play.

The decades before this favored informal games. Afterward, league play dominated kid-ball.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#190

Post by krumpet »

pridkett wrote: post #34
krumpet wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty strict background check? Just so your kid can play Little League? Please help me understand why. If the parent were signing up to coach, I could understand. But just to have a kid in the league. I don't get it.

It’s referring to strict background checks for the volunteers.

Ahh, yes for volunteers actually working with children, I'm fine with more strict background checks.
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