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The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

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Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#241

Will there be a live feed ?

I'm not sure that the drone has an uplink. If not, it would have to relay images to the rover over a 200kbps zigbee connection for transmission. Unlikely to be video in that case, more reasonably highly delayed still frames. Would be more in line with its mission profile as well.

I was thinking of something like they did for the landing.

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googling NASA + AVR led me down a rabbit hole towards Atmel microcontrollers, what do you mean by AVR in this context?

AVR = Augmented Virtual Reality. It's like CGI on steroids, crack, and speed at the same time. People still have the naivete to trust things because they are on a screen. Preconceived notions cause one to mentally miss or gloss over the great artistry and manipulation in AVR cartoons. The vid is worth the few minutes. It is a half decent scientific experiment that shows how rocket propulsion really works, and it show…

Just curious, are you experiencing some kind of psychosis? You have a strangely roundabout way of explaining your counterarguments here which doesn't seem to be really answering the question at all.

Augmented Reality of course simply means integrating CGI into real footage. It is not "CGI on steroids". How would it help them fake the landing? Are you suggesting that the rover was computer generated, or the background? Why would they do either of those things when they have a real rover and real test environments on Earth they could film in?

Also why do you keep mentioning oxidation? The helicopter is powered by an electric motor, so what does oxidation have to do with it?

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#243
post #6

Wikipedia page about the Ingenuity helicopter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter) I didn't realise it was so large (1.8 kg, 1.2 m diameter rotors). I suppose it has to have the large rotors to be able to generate lift in the thin atmosphere, 1/160th of the density [edit: pressure, not density - thanks Robotbeat] of the earth's atmosphere at sea level according to the article.

its blades rotate over 2000 rpm. it can fly upto 90 seconds consuming 10 to 15 watts. it is meant to be eyes of main rover to guide it.

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody have any thoughts on how feasible it would be to make a metal “vacuum sphere” that floated in earth’s atmosphere? That’d be pretty cool! How huge would it have to be? Would it have to be made of titanium? Aluminum? Stainless steel? How good are those materials at withstanding a vacuum (or partial vacuum) if the diameter was say... 50m? I feel like at some size it must work, as the volume of air displaced…

The concept is known as a "vacuum airship". TL;DR: Materials aren't strong enough past very trivial volumes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_airship This is a plot element in Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age , as well as several other fictional appearances (Edgar Rice Burroughs, Azhar Abidi, Peter Watts, and Iain M. Banks all use the trope). There are no materials known with sufficient strength to withstand com…

I am following https://www.o-boot.com/en/ with interest. They claim to have solved the buckling issues by using a roman arch-like structure.

The idea sounds relatively sound to me. One could construct a sphere out of aerogel cones, and the external pressure would reinforce it. Not sure how practical it would be to build such a thing, though.

At some point, since volume grows slower than volume, I expect you can make the envelope relatively thick without sacrificing density. That's also the idea behind Cloud nine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Nine_%28tensegrity_spher...

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By many definitions the Earth-Moon system is a dual planetary system. The moon has more that 1% the mass of the Earth, which is by far the largest primary-secondary "not a planet" system in the solar system. Only not-a-planet Pluto and Charon exceed it. Also, Isaac Asimov considered the system a dual-planet system as the Moon's path around the sun is at no point convex nor retrograde.

Earth-Moon centre of mass is inside Earth, so, it's obvious that the Moon is orbiting the Earth, not both orbiting something else. 1% is an arbitrary threshold and solar orbit is dependent on external circumstances rather than the Earth-Moon system itself.

The barycentre being inside of one of the things in the system is also an arbitrary threshold, isn't it?

The barycentre of the Sun and Jupiter isn't inside of the Sun.. so does that mean Jupiter doesn't orbit the Sun?

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And given the density of Venus' atmosphere, here is a fun thought experiment. It may be possible to make 'titanium' balloons for longer term operation. The would work by creating the balloon envelope on earth, have a sealing mechanism that you activated in orbit so they had vacuum inside. And then drop them into the atmosphere. Same idea a glass floats on fishing nets[1] except with titanium (so they can withstand th…

Does anybody have any thoughts on how feasible it would be to make a metal “vacuum sphere” that floated in earth’s atmosphere? That’d be pretty cool! How huge would it have to be? Would it have to be made of titanium? Aluminum? Stainless steel? How good are those materials at withstanding a vacuum (or partial vacuum) if the diameter was say... 50m? I feel like at some size it must work, as the volume of air displaced…

It's not feasible in earth's atmosphere, but seem to be feasible in mars: https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2017_Phase_...

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#247
post #168
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno about guided bombs, but cruise missiles have been using some pretty fascinating techniques to navigate before GPS was a thing. It's probably hard to find CPU specs, because they're defense technology.

It is surprisingly easy to find, as that stuff is pretty thoroughly covered in academic/industry journals. The only hinderance to access is a credit card number for the paywall.

The helicopter project is somewhere said to cost $80 million.

Would be interesting to know cost allocation for that Sony/Samsung chip. Project manager and scientists/engineers could have listed design challenges for industry player like TSMC/Apple go beat with an offering, a short run of 20 chips specifically for this helicopter.

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge is that Earth's air isn't dense enough. That said, the math is "easy" density is volume/mass, vacuum adds no mass, so it is just material mass / volume. A 20cm diameter diamond sphere that was .5mm thick would have a mass of about 41g, a 20cm diameter sphere of air at sea level and "room" temperature is about 50g. So you would get 9g of "lifting force" from such a balloon (assuming I did all the calcula…

If you're interested in some fiction with this concept: In Neal Stephenson's 'Diamond Age' humans have mastered assembly of individual atoms in basically arbitrary ways. They use it (among other things) to create flying airships with an envelope made of diamond with a vacuum inside. Found it to be a fun read in general.

I've really enjoyed several of Stephenson's books, but 'Diamond Age' was one I couldn't get into. I need to give it another shot.

On the subject of Sci-Fi, there's also a vacuum airship featured in one of Edgar Rice Burroughs' Tarzan novels - 'Tarzan at the Earth's Core'. It is of course much less scientific than Stephenson's version though.

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge is that Earth's air isn't dense enough. That said, the math is "easy" density is volume/mass, vacuum adds no mass, so it is just material mass / volume. A 20cm diameter diamond sphere that was .5mm thick would have a mass of about 41g, a 20cm diameter sphere of air at sea level and "room" temperature is about 50g. So you would get 9g of "lifting force" from such a balloon (assuming I did all the calcula…

If you're interested in some fiction with this concept: In Neal Stephenson's 'Diamond Age' humans have mastered assembly of individual atoms in basically arbitrary ways. They use it (among other things) to create flying airships with an envelope made of diamond with a vacuum inside. Found it to be a fun read in general.

That's always a fun blast from the tech hype past where nanotechnology was going to be pure magic with tiny machines capable of doing anything. That was an exciting possible future while it lasted, nanotechnology is doing neat stuff but it's nowhere close to the wild promises.

Re: The Mars Helicopter Is Online and Getting Ready to Fly

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're interested in some fiction with this concept: In Neal Stephenson's 'Diamond Age' humans have mastered assembly of individual atoms in basically arbitrary ways. They use it (among other things) to create flying airships with an envelope made of diamond with a vacuum inside. Found it to be a fun read in general.

I've really enjoyed several of Stephenson's books, but 'Diamond Age' was one I couldn't get into. I need to give it another shot. On the subject of Sci-Fi, there's also a vacuum airship featured in one of Edgar Rice Burroughs' Tarzan novels - 'Tarzan at the Earth's Core'. It is of course much less scientific than Stephenson's version though.

He really likes to drop readers in with minimal explanation into a world, he's gotten much better at it over time but Diamond Age is both one of his earlier works and one of his most esoteric worlds with the odd neo-Victorians etc.
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