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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

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Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#191

Post by offtop5 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #164
offtop5 wrote: post #146

The part about cars is pretty spot on, I'm upper middle class and I've been able to save so much money by getting rid of my car. On the low end you're going to hit 300 to 500 dollars a month for the privilege of driving. The problem here is America simply isn't built for public transit. But since cars are a status symbol, people still go down to Toyota, or Honda and as long as they can make that first down payment th…

>> I'm upper middle class and I've been able to save so much money by getting rid of my car. Because you probably have job at a desk with a computer. You don't physically do much and so your per-minute presence at work isn't mandatory. If you are a few minutes late the world is not going to end and your workday rarely starts before 5am. You can handle the ins and outs of public transportation and/or you can afford to…

Actually in my area public transportation is more reliable than driving.

Nothing like being able to play video games during your commute

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#192

Post by Lambdanaut »

marcusverus wrote: post #143
Aeolun wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. I guess it’s just that so many poor, dirty people act mentally unhinged and (potentially) dangerous that you start to assume that about all of them. I find that I try to avoid them right up until they force me to interact with them and I find out they’re one of the (relatively) normal ones. T…

> I’m not quite sure why it works this way. It works this way because people are, rationally, more interested in their own physical safety than they are in the feelings of strangers. Anecdote: I was in San Francisco a few years back. There were homeless folks everywhere. Some were nice, even chatty. We felt at ease even when walking through areas that were full of homeless folks. But a couple of days into our trip, a…

"Rationally"? You mentioned you had all sorts of nice experiences with homeless people and then one bad actor caused you to choose out of all of the attributes of this person, their lack of a home, to be the one for you to blanket-label all people like this as dangerous enough to place them outside of your treat-like-a-human-being sphere.

Nah, there is not a rational way to blanket label groups like this from a sample size of 1. That's your trauma talking.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#193

Post by aembleton »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #104

> a pretty bottom-barrel ford leases for 300-400 a month Ford leases seem to be expensive for some reason, and not indicative of the overall market. For instance, a base model Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic can be leased for $160/month, with $0 down. With $1000 down, these figures are close to $100/month. > A company is looking to pay a person as little as they can and keep them, so a person’s pay is determined by how…

> Honda Civic can be leased for $160/month, with $0 down

Is that available to people without a good credit rating?

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#194

Post by dazc »

Aeolun wrote: post #84
airhead969 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever slept in a bus station? I have, in the US. I went for 3 years without any healthcare, and then it took another 7 years and a lawyer (who took $16k USD) to get more permanent help. One thing is for certain: with 99.99% of people, their friendliness (or meanness) is proportional to the size of your bank account. If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you wi…

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. I guess it’s just that so many poor, dirty people act mentally unhinged and (potentially) dangerous that you start to assume that about all of them. I find that I try to avoid them right up until they force me to interact with them and I find out they’re one of the (relatively) normal ones. T…

Please don't overlook the people who are not dirty or mentally unhinged.

The guy sat on the same bench you walk past everyday, the guy you see sat in the library everyday, etc. Not every homeless person acts like a homeless person and you see them everywhere once you start looking.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#195

Post by thaumasiotes »

mudita wrote: post #29

I was poor for some time after deciding to quit my computer science phd for a career in art. I guess I still am compared to others, but it does not feel that way any more. When I was really poor, worrying about money and how to pay the next rent was a regular source of stress for me, which took quite a lot of emotional energy. Now I still have much lower income than people, who have regular well-paying jobs, but I do…

> Financially switching from computer science to art has been a very bad decision, but overall it was the best decision in my life.

This reminded me of a friend who graduated with a BA in "design" (I'm not sure), got a high-paying job as a web designer, and quit that to become a teacher at some type of extracurricular enrichment place for very young children.

The new place didn't pay well -- or even reliably -- but she liked it more.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#196

Post by g8oz »

dfgdghdf wrote: post #108
EliRivers wrote: post #69

The car. As he says, the car. The goddamned car. Every time you get into it, hoping that it will start. And not just when it's been sat outside your house for a while. When you stop for petrol (gas), or in the car park after buying food, sitting behind the wheel and hoping it starts again. The restrictions that get placed on you when you just can't rely on the car always starting. For your life, a mostly-starts car i…

For the wealthy, a car is expensive but mostly a convenient way to get around. For the poor, car maintenance costs can be ruinous. However, our society (excluding a few large cities) all but requires a car for day-to-day activities. Everyone drivers, but the poor bear the brunt of the cost, since they are more likely to live near noisy, polluted roads. Meanwhile, the wealthy can afford to live on quiet suburbs and cu…

>>Cities and infrastructure designed for cars ("car dependency") disproportionately hurts the poor.

A cynical view would be that this was always the intent.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#197

Post by thaumasiotes »

marcusverus wrote: post #143
Aeolun wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. I guess it’s just that so many poor, dirty people act mentally unhinged and (potentially) dangerous that you start to assume that about all of them. I find that I try to avoid them right up until they force me to interact with them and I find out they’re one of the (relatively) normal ones. T…

> I’m not quite sure why it works this way. It works this way because people are, rationally, more interested in their own physical safety than they are in the feelings of strangers. Anecdote: I was in San Francisco a few years back. There were homeless folks everywhere. Some were nice, even chatty. We felt at ease even when walking through areas that were full of homeless folks. But a couple of days into our trip, a…

> Is that fair to the average homeless person, who is perfectly normal, just down on their luck?

This is not an accurate description of the average homeless person.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#198

Post by sandworm101 »

offtop5 wrote: post #191
sandworm101 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'm upper middle class and I've been able to save so much money by getting rid of my car. Because you probably have job at a desk with a computer. You don't physically do much and so your per-minute presence at work isn't mandatory. If you are a few minutes late the world is not going to end and your workday rarely starts before 5am. You can handle the ins and outs of public transportation and/or you can afford to…

Actually in my area public transportation is more reliable than driving. Nothing like being able to play video games during your commute

The video game thing is interesting. If we one day get truly autodrive cars, would a long commute matter as much? If I can literally sleep as the computer does the driving I probably wouldn't care so much about a longer commute.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#199

Post by [deleted] »

marcusverus wrote: post #143
Aeolun wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. I guess it’s just that so many poor, dirty people act mentally unhinged and (potentially) dangerous that you start to assume that about all of them. I find that I try to avoid them right up until they force me to interact with them and I find out they’re one of the (relatively) normal ones. T…

> I’m not quite sure why it works this way. It works this way because people are, rationally, more interested in their own physical safety than they are in the feelings of strangers. Anecdote: I was in San Francisco a few years back. There were homeless folks everywhere. Some were nice, even chatty. We felt at ease even when walking through areas that were full of homeless folks. But a couple of days into our trip, a…

[deleted]

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#200

Post by aembleton »

nchelluri wrote: post #186

I read about half of this post and I've paused there. It screams to me "Let's have a Universal Basic Income" already. > And one day your wife calls you and tells you the water is off, and there’s nothing you can do; maybe some family member can help you out, or maybe you live without utilities for a week or so until you get paid and start the next pay cycle that much more behind. These are people with children we are…

> What do I have to do to make this happen?

Choose one of those and focus on it. Make a campaign around it, create a Facebook group. Study the topic and argue for it and finally try and get elected to make a change.

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