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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

residentcontrarian.substack.com

121–130 of 920 posts

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#121
I think this article was well written but stopped just short of where it needed to be in a few places.

>If you came from a family that did pretty well financially, went to college and then immediately started to do pretty well yourself, it’s hard to get any kind of context for what life is like at lower income levels.

I would have gone further and said most of the advice given about any topic people who haven't lived it is crap and shouldn't be listened do. Some yuppie with an engineering job has zero useful advice when it comes to telling a forklift driver how to get ahead. Someone who manages a $100 restaurant in downtown NYC is going to have little useful advice for a truck-stop diner owner.

> is that it’s usually assumed that the quality of things has a pretty linear association to the price.

They assume it because they have enough money to insulate them from having any good reason to tell the difference. How often have you heard something like "I've only replaced the gears in my Kithenaid mixer 3x and the frame on my Tacoma 4x" and then the people saying it turn around and defend those things as worth the price premium as though doing so isn't lunacy with a side of stockholm syndrome. At a certain point you can afford to get ripped off. It's like a form of conspicuous consumption where instead of being overt you pretend to be hapless.

>That’s the drop-off you experience at the lower price levels - there’s nothing between “This is a tiny but acceptable apartment” and “Slum apartments in stab-ville”.

Author neglects to mention that through personal behavior you can largely avoid being affected by the worst parts of stabville and that when you know you can do so at little cost the extra $300/mo for "peace of mind" is kind of hard to justify and you need to use "but kids" type logic to do so.

>I am always consistently shocked by how little people living at a decent-to-great income level fear their cars... (I'm not gonna bother quoting the full paragraph)

The author should have rounded out this paragraph with "eventually you accrue enough tools and experience you don't need to worry about anything anymore because you understand the mechanical state of your car" and a lecture about how a car's utility lets you save money. Try buying used appliances or furniture CL with a bus pass. It just doesn't work. If it's a legitimately good deal you couldn't get it in the time it takes to arrange a rental.

>I think this is a fairly accurate way to look at pay, but it applies to other aspects of the job. If you got sick more often....(once again, not gonna quote the whole thing).

This is very much a two way street. If you're the guy on your shift who saves the line manager a whole lot of pain in the butt (e.g. transportation arrangements make it trivial for you to show up early as needed) they're gonna wink and nod and let you get away with some off the books allowances because they know that you can get another McJob elsewhere just as easily as they can replace you and that your replacement likely won't have whatever value-add you do.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#122
post #90
post #24

I grew up poor (first gen immigrant family, the poor kind), so I empathize with the points raised. At the same time I don't really understand how some / a family can be (outside of some circumstances like health issues, disabilities etc) repeatedly behind on water bills or other necessities. For the first few years my family had an income of ~$1000 / month (back in the 90s). My mother wasn't legally allowed to work a…

All that you needed to break down was the car failing, or someone falling sick. Minimum wage in the US hasn't kept pace with inflation for decades, and rents, school fees and the costs of medication have kept rising even faster. Banks charge even higher overdraft fees, so the small joys of a pair of branded shoes or a fancy phone are affordable, but the longer term gains aren't likely to be in reach. Escaping poverty…

True the minimum wage hasn’t kept up. That’s mainly due to exporting manufacturing offshore.

People want cheap crap but they also want to keep wages high. Bernie understood this which is why he was against trade agreements and cheap labor.

Now people are used to paying $5 for a Tshirt. They want to get paid $15 an hour but also balk at a $20 Tshirt. You can’t have it both ways.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#123
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know "free loaders" aren't why most people are homeless right?

I didn't say that.

No, but if there is no relation between the two then I'm not sure why the second paragraph is relevant here.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#124
post #2

A while ago I read about a study that surveyed people with inherited wealth. IIRC they ranged from having inherited tens to hundreds of millions. No matter how much they had inherited, when asked how much they would need to have inherited to feel financially secure and not have to worry about money, they said they would need something like half again to double. I may be misremembering the details, but that was the gi…

It is never about how much money you have, rather what situation you are in, what you are expecting and what others around you have.

I wonder how much of that is innate rather than being driven by consumerist propaganda though. Do I really want a new car because the Jones's next door have one, or because advertising makes me feel somehow inadequate because I don't have one?

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever slept in a bus station? I have, in the US. I went for 3 years without any healthcare, and then it took another 7 years and a lawyer (who took $16k USD) to get more permanent help. One thing is for certain: with 99.99% of people, their friendliness (or meanness) is proportional to the size of your bank account. If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you wi…

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. You don’t need to be homeless to discover that some people lack sympathy. I lack sympathy. It doesn’t mean I’m an asshole. Sympathy isn’t empathy (huge distinction). Some people can’t tell the difference and everyone is just bad (cue the big tears). This is especially true if you’re a freeloa…

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Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#126
post #117
post #24

I grew up poor (first gen immigrant family, the poor kind), so I empathize with the points raised. At the same time I don't really understand how some / a family can be (outside of some circumstances like health issues, disabilities etc) repeatedly behind on water bills or other necessities. For the first few years my family had an income of ~$1000 / month (back in the 90s). My mother wasn't legally allowed to work a…

Some poor families handle it better than others. A lot has to do with the parents and how they manage the situation psychologically. There is peer pressure on the kids (and even parents), so they upend Maslow’s pyramid to their detriment. Some of it may be educational —home ec is not taught in many schools. Some of it is cultural (advertising) and some of it is propaganda (we’re Americans, we must have a TV and consu…

> in Japan if you went on the dole you first had to sell your ‘luxury’ items before getting government support. It indicated you had to be in need and not supplementing or aiding poor economic decisions.

I agree with the theory, but what is a luxury? Cheap shoes are penny wise and pound foolish as i've discovered. (though some expensive brands last no longer than the cheap ones). You can't really do anything today without an internet connection - school or apply for a job, and you are expected to answer your cell phone when called, so some form of smart phone is required and if you have an iphone it isn't worth enough used to be worth selling to buy a cheaper phone...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#127
Talleyrand related a story about Bourienne, who missed out on becoming the Prefect of Police of Paris and 200,000 a year because he travelled from Hamburg in a broken down carriage and lost 24 hours reaching the city to grab the opportunity:

"It shows why one should never be a poor devil"

And this is exactly why the rich get richer: they're in a position to take opportunity and to do so in a calm, orderly fashion.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=0djR6fbrIEYC&printsec=front...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#129
> You are also more or less forced to learn to do mechanic work.

You are forced to do all your own work, unless the landlord will help. I am no longer poor and broke, but I spent roughly my first three decades there. I recall a colleague saying they were redoing their walk way; it blew my mind they paid someone to do it — the concept of paying someone to do something for you is not something I experienced growing up. I now can afford contractors and it still is not my first (or second or third) thought when I need work done.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#130
post #7

>while it’s normal to put down a month or two worth of rent as a security deposit, it’s much less normal to get it back This looks insane to an Australian. I have moved house 4 times in the past 5 years and I have never not got all of my bond back. Some states here have a rule that the bond money is held by the state so that the landowner doesn't just take that money for themselves. How can the poor ever break the cy…

The last place I rented from took my deposit for damage they knew existed before I started renting. (They literally painted over mold in the kitchen closet.) Then they tried to send me a $1000+ bill over a year later for “damages”.
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