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Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

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Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#251

Post by krageon »

imtringued wrote: post #205
guilamu wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've made some excellent points here, mate, thanks.

They are pretty weak points. By his logic, when you join a company and work you are speculating that you will get paid a salary. At that point everything is speculation and nothing is certain. By writing this comment I am speculating that a HTTP call will be made that results in a database entry. Since humans are not perfect and never have complete information about a system they engage in speculation in every single…

> everything is speculation

You've reduced his argument to ridiculousness. That's kind of low-effort, so in that spirit: It's true, nothing is in fact certain. Telling yourself otherwise is a convention that makes it easier to live and be resilient.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#252

Post by UncleMeat »

anonisko wrote: post #178
dehrmann wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin. Sure, but 95% of people don't care about that. They just want an asset they will go up. Everything else is just a story people tell themselves so they're not putting 20% of their net worth in trading cards.

Every store of value that has ever existed and will ever exist is just a game of speculation that it will continue to be valued when you're ready to withdraw your money to do things you've saved for. Gold was the best portable and fungible speculative bet for a very long time. Bonds are speculation that a country will continue to be productive and well managed enough to pay their debts without resorting to massive in…

There is some speculation involved with stocks, but they are fundamentally different from gold, btc, or art because they are productive assets. They aren't just a thing that sits on the ground and does nothing. They represent some small portion of actual factual work done by human beings to produce goods or services. This is why buying the diversified stock market is investing and buying the diversified crypto market is speculating.

There is risk involved in both, but they aren't identical.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#253

Post by UncleMeat »

andrewtbham wrote: post #105
Traster wrote: post #21

It is kind of funny that exchanges have become so successful for Bitcoin- since they lose 100% of the stuff that made BTC attractive in the first place. They’re centralised, regulated and transactions don’t even go on the blockchain. The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin.

I think the fixed supply is what attracts people.

Yet doge has shot up a ton recently.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#254

Post by cromwellian »

UncleMeat wrote: post #252
anonisko wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every store of value that has ever existed and will ever exist is just a game of speculation that it will continue to be valued when you're ready to withdraw your money to do things you've saved for. Gold was the best portable and fungible speculative bet for a very long time. Bonds are speculation that a country will continue to be productive and well managed enough to pay their debts without resorting to massive in…

There is some speculation involved with stocks, but they are fundamentally different from gold, btc, or art because they are productive assets . They aren't just a thing that sits on the ground and does nothing. They represent some small portion of actual factual work done by human beings to produce goods or services. This is why buying the diversified stock market is investing and buying the diversified crypto marke…

According to the USGS, 37% of gold is used in electronics. So gold is also a part of productive assets, and its use in electronics is only increasing.

Bitcoin by contrast isn't a productive asset, has no fundamental property like gold does, that exists outside of its original purpose, and its maintenance requires constant usage of energy just to jog in place. Switch off the BTC network, and value goes to zero, which isn't true for gold.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#255

Post by ldbooth »

cromwellian wrote: post #254
UncleMeat wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some speculation involved with stocks, but they are fundamentally different from gold, btc, or art because they are productive assets . They aren't just a thing that sits on the ground and does nothing. They represent some small portion of actual factual work done by human beings to produce goods or services. This is why buying the diversified stock market is investing and buying the diversified crypto marke…

According to the USGS, 37% of gold is used in electronics. So gold is also a part of productive assets , and its use in electronics is only increasing. Bitcoin by contrast isn't a productive asset, has no fundamental property like gold does, that exists outside of its original purpose, and its maintenance requires constant usage of energy just to jog in place. Switch off the BTC network, and value goes to zero, which…

You are conflating a commodity with a cash producing asset like a farm. Show me the cash flows from your gold nugget and I'll show you the cash flows from a farm that produces a usable product in the market.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#256

Post by ldbooth »

anonisko wrote: post #214
imtringued wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are pretty weak points. By his logic, when you join a company and work you are speculating that you will get paid a salary. At that point everything is speculation and nothing is certain. By writing this comment I am speculating that a HTTP call will be made that results in a database entry. Since humans are not perfect and never have complete information about a system they engage in speculation in every single…

Everything is speculation. My ultimate point with the comment above, is that dismissing bitcoin as nothing more that a rampant speculative bubble is not a good argument against it. Everything we value is a speculative bubble that can eventually pop if conditions that cause us to value it change. The bitcoin bubble can pop (and has many times) but so can the 'trust in the US government' bubble.

Bitcoin is a genius trust system. But if the price gains are based on demand created by financial leverage, it can be both genius and a bubble due to leverage and short term price distortion. If interest rates go up, BTC prices will fall despite the 'inflation protection' argument. Long term, the proponents make good point sans undermining US financial sanctions, the best no war big stick the US has.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#257

Post by UncleMeat »

cromwellian wrote: post #254
UncleMeat wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some speculation involved with stocks, but they are fundamentally different from gold, btc, or art because they are productive assets . They aren't just a thing that sits on the ground and does nothing. They represent some small portion of actual factual work done by human beings to produce goods or services. This is why buying the diversified stock market is investing and buying the diversified crypto marke…

According to the USGS, 37% of gold is used in electronics. So gold is also a part of productive assets , and its use in electronics is only increasing. Bitcoin by contrast isn't a productive asset, has no fundamental property like gold does, that exists outside of its original purpose, and its maintenance requires constant usage of energy just to jog in place. Switch off the BTC network, and value goes to zero, which…

Gold is a material used in productive assets. But if it sits in your vault it won't do anything. Stocks do, even if they sit in your vault.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#259

Post by jokethrowaway »

anonisko wrote: post #178
dehrmann wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin. Sure, but 95% of people don't care about that. They just want an asset they will go up. Everything else is just a story people tell themselves so they're not putting 20% of their net worth in trading cards.

Every store of value that has ever existed and will ever exist is just a game of speculation that it will continue to be valued when you're ready to withdraw your money to do things you've saved for. Gold was the best portable and fungible speculative bet for a very long time. Bonds are speculation that a country will continue to be productive and well managed enough to pay their debts without resorting to massive in…

The problem with bitcoin is that it's not exclusive - there are tons of alternatives.

Some even have better features (think Ethereum or Monero or Zcash).

Nothing is stopping people from launching bitcoin2,bitcoin3, etc and having the same technology available - yet BTC is the major player skyrocketing.

This is an example of the market being irrational longer than expected, in my book.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#260

Post by moistly »

random5634 wrote: post #238
moistly wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you telling us that you’ve never heard a woman say to her group of female friends “Hey guys, wanna xyz?” It’s 2021. “Guys” has been gender neutral since basically forever and a day. It was so in my schools in the 70s/80s, and by my mother’s recollection, the same back in her school days. And it pretty much has to be so: we lack a good alternative second person plural. Note though that “guy” (singular) is gendered…

Actually - where I am guys is considered negative because it derives from male as the default gender / ie, patriarchal is the argument I've heard. But absolutely NO ONE considers it a perversion or focus on genitals except for a few folks. This line, why are you focusing on my genitals or why are you focusing on their genitals comes up repeatedly in this context so it has to be a commonly used argument in some more a…

You should stop assuming that idiots stirring up shit over a non-gendered term that has been in use for well over sixty years have any sort of legitimate opinion. “Where I am guys is considered negative“ is puerile bullshit and you have been suckered. Quit lending them your support.
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