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Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

reuters.com

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Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#91
post #81
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. They file bankruptcy. And the bill is left on the table. Only profits (divident) go to investors. If a company becomes insolvable the investors are shielded. Similar to when a company operated against the law: profits were taken by investors, now they can sink the shop when the law suits start. > If it was a public utility it would be tax payers. That would be socializing losses. No-one is arguing against that!…

Yes, but many investors will have bought their share in the company, and that is worthless. Whether they had enough money paid out through dividends in the run-up to that point or not is situation dependent - the company could not pay dividends at all.

> many investors will have bought their share in the company, and that is worthless.

That's just part of the risk. We're now talking about the bill that is still on the table. If the "investors" were fully responsible for their "investments" they would not have worthless shares, but they would have to pay up for what the company still owes. That their risk stops at "shares being worthless" is exactly what I mean by them being shielded.

I learned the energy firm was a coop: they have no shareholders.

But the discussion is still interesting, well at least to me :)

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#92
post #53
post #33

Interesting does this mean that global warming will cause the insurance crisis in the US?

I expect there will be a big fight about this. Insurance companies are already worried. I expect them to start writing into their policies exclusions about man made climate change. Which most people won't notice until it is time to file a claim. And then there will be a big uproar.

No single weather event can be reliably tied to climate change, though. Presumably it's on the insurance company to prove that an event falls into an excluded category, so it's a matter of time before someone fights them on it and wins.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#93
post #88

This is the side of privatisation that gets ignored. When private companies screw up, who gets left with the bill? Private companies have no incentive to be ready for really big problems because they know they’ll get bailed out, or just not have to pay. Privatise the profit, socialise the losses.

> . When private companies screw up, who gets left with the bill? In theory, the company is meant to declare bankruptcy (or seek more investment from shareholders) as soon as their books say they are insolvent. A company is Insolvent when it's liabilities are higher than it's assets, even by a single dollar. The theory is that because the company is required to declare bankruptcy as soon as possible, it should only b…

Thank You! Very informative.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#94

This is the side of privatisation that gets ignored. When private companies screw up, who gets left with the bill? Private companies have no incentive to be ready for really big problems because they know they’ll get bailed out, or just not have to pay. Privatise the profit, socialise the losses.

It's actually well understood that privatisation for platform industries is bad, privatisation for businesses running on top of platforms is good.

Networks and infrastructure = little to no competition. Eg. networks naturally settle in a optimal geographical location and utilize economy of scale then. Can't compete with that. So don't privatise platforms. Rather - make them monopolistic and make them share the revenue with public using a monopoly tax. AT&T model.

Translated to programmer speak: society's OS (law,defence,policing,roads,energy,networks,sewers,etc.) should be uniform and near monopolistic to maximize economy of scale.

Society's Apps (businesses) running in the ecosystem of the OS should be private, numerous and competitive as much as possible.

Occassionally you stumble upon a private business which develops a new network model and after some time it should be refactored from being an App to be part of the OS (eg. twitter).

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the reason politicians all around the world have been so ill-equipped to deal with Covid - they are used to their decisions having 10 / 20 year repercussions, by which time they're well out of the blame-zone.

The thing that I find surprising about the US government is that everything is a bill/law. Like instead of the transportation agency deciding to build a bridge, Congress has to pass a law to build a bridge. Does anyone know exactly why it’s set up this way?

In my country I think it is so when the agency will need some kind of financial backing from the government.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#96
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a politician enacts a policy that ignores some big tail risk, they won’t be in office when it eventually blows up. Who foots the bill in that case? Certainly the politician and maybe their party won’t suffer election losses from it.

You are ignoring the profit part. Public company = maybe profits, maybe losses for the taxpayer Private company = maybe losses, never the profits for the taxpayer. Is 2008 already forgotten?

Private companies pay taxes, which profits other tax payers.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#97
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this story - the case of Dunedin's lines company (Aurora) is not a matter of simple underinvestment - a decade or so ago the city built an indoor stadium, it cost hundreds of millions more than they originally claimed, and the local rugby community welched on the 'private fundraising' they promised to bring to the table - the city got stuck having to pay for it all, plus rather than making the promised small a…

Yeah, when the last government was trumpeting a new stadium in Christchurch post-quake as a massive economic boom, I was somewhat dubious. If the rugby franchises want it, maybe they should put their money where their mouth is.

They did put their money where their mouth is, they just had the sense to spend it on a lobbying campaign because it's cheaper to build a stadium with your money than theirs.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#98
post #94

This is the side of privatisation that gets ignored. When private companies screw up, who gets left with the bill? Private companies have no incentive to be ready for really big problems because they know they’ll get bailed out, or just not have to pay. Privatise the profit, socialise the losses.

It's actually well understood that privatisation for platform industries is bad, privatisation for businesses running on top of platforms is good. Networks and infrastructure = little to no competition. Eg. networks naturally settle in a optimal geographical location and utilize economy of scale then. Can't compete with that. So don't privatise platforms. Rather - make them monopolistic and make them share the revenu…

Road networks are a great example. Just assume the hypothetical position of a competitor. Where are you gonna build a competing road in, say, NYC? Each block only has 4 sides, and each of them already has a street.

You could maybe compete on interstate highways or other long-area bits. Maybe. That's stretching it.

Build a competing water supply network to each house? Another set of sewers? Electricity distribution? Hell no.

IMHO all of these things should be communal property & development. The preconditions for free market are not met, it's not possible to compete; so the whole market equation falls apart.

Hand the operation & maintenance out to some company or whatever, there it's possible to compete. But not the actual physical infrastructure.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#99
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could say that CA and TX are demonstrating that deregulation is a failed strategy. "Vital infrastructure" and "market driven" are rarely a good match.

The infrastructure to produce food is pretty vital, but I think it's also mostly market-driven and works well. I think the issues around power utilities are more to do with a lack of competition, and legislation that creates perverse incentives. (I don't know what the current perverse incentives are, but at least as of 2010, an energy startup founder said[1] that power companies were legislated monopolies that were "…

> The infrastructure to produce food is pretty vital, but I think it's also mostly market-driven and works well.

Have you seen the amount of subsidies that exist for Ag? It's Market based in name only, futures contracts for pork bellies or bushels of wheat is so far removed from the day to day of farming that they might as well be pixie dust to a horticulturalist or a rancher, seldom does that morass of speculation enter into the equation of how and what to bring to Market.

To this day I will never understand what it is they are trying to establish other than a convoluted and hypothetical settlement prices for something that most countries deal with on the international level for international commerce not domestic consumption.

I did horticulture with some livestock during my apprenticeship and neither I nor the people I studied under ever made an effort to watch the FTSE when we began a growing season, what mattered more was following food trends like cultivating kale, brussels sprouts, kohlrabi, cauliflower etc... to meet the CSAs or that would command a price premium at the farmer's markets in a B2C business model.

> I think the issues around power utilities are more to do with a lack of competition, and legislation that creates perverse incentives.

Agreed, Texas may tout a deregulated energy market but I wonder when it is all tallied for how many people are actually allowed to offer their energy surplus, because unless Cletus from San Antonio with his 45kW array can tie into the system and sell his energy to interested parties I doubt you can call it a free market, let alone deregulated when only a few vetted and selected participants are allowed to do so.

I think this underscores the need to have your own power source, and I can tell you these storms are not uncommon in Texas: I was there this time last year making my way down to Boca Chica for my SpaceX interview and everything was frozen until about San Antonio, and Texans like Californians, suck at driving in anything but pristine weather.

I drove in from Colorado and snow and ice are typical that time of the year so my car was already weather capable (all seasons, de-icer, good windshield wipers etc...) since November and I had no problem driving in inclines with a manual transmission in completely frozen roads where all the locals had summer compounds on there massive SUVs and their lifted pickups and rolled over or crashed on the side of the road.

I was let go when the local cops realized I could drive in the ice/snow and they saw my Colorado plates.

I foresee this to be the new norm now in Texas now, 2 years in a row is not an isolated incident, it's a trend. And I'm sure I can already see Tesla making moves to bring Buffalo back online to supply Texans with residential solar alongside the Giga in Austin as people were posting on Social Media about sleeping in their Tesla in camp mode to stay warm.

And also I want to say that for all this tough talk about Texas being capable burly people, it's sad to realize that they can be out done by a Southern Californian from the coast with no camping experience and only several years of living in Germany, Switzerland and Colorado. I was embarrassed to see how incapable these guys were proving themselves to be under such a situation and made me realize that the adage of: all hat, no cattle apply to these supposed 'rugged people' for 2 years in a row.

If you can't start a fire in your environment to keep you or family alive you have no business of looking down on anyone and no amount of big talk and posing with guns is going to change that fact that you'd be the first to die if things got really bad.

I lived in the base of Bernese Alps in a cabin well over 300 years old with no running water, electricity or insulation for 2 seasons (Winter and Spring) at ~7k feet elevation where on the warmest days it barely went above freezing most days.

I managed to keep myself alive and take care of 40 grazing cows just fine--the cabin was attached to a barn. The hardest part for was manually pumping the water from the well in the morning and at night until it got warm enough to use the pipes again. And the smell, I can still smell them in my dreams to this day.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#100
post #98
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually well understood that privatisation for platform industries is bad, privatisation for businesses running on top of platforms is good. Networks and infrastructure = little to no competition. Eg. networks naturally settle in a optimal geographical location and utilize economy of scale then. Can't compete with that. So don't privatise platforms. Rather - make them monopolistic and make them share the revenu…

Road networks are a great example. Just assume the hypothetical position of a competitor. Where are you gonna build a competing road in, say, NYC? Each block only has 4 sides, and each of them already has a street. You could maybe compete on interstate highways or other long-area bits. Maybe. That's stretching it. Build a competing water supply network to each house? Another set of sewers? Electricity distribution? H…

What about housing itself? There is only one building that can exist at 100 1st Ave, and its location is entirely unique/entirely monopolized.
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