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Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

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Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#41
post #31
post #2

No other fuel has the energy density of nuclear, no other source has the capability to run 24/7/365. Renewables are based on the hope that one day we will either had transcontinental grids, which no one has managed to build, or get batteries with energy storage seen only in Star Trek. Nuclear on the other hand has been here for 50 years and could have already solved our CO2 problems. But because it's unfashinable to…

I can't understand the downvotes you got. You pushed may be a bit on political stereotypes, but other than that you just stated the facts.

That's where we are at right now, just stating the energy facts are considered political...

There's no realistic scenario at the moment where renewables can be used alone to build a grid for a full country unless you are betting on future tech which doesn't (and might never) exist.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#42
post #36

What do you do in 30 years when another incident like the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster happens? Batteries will be the long term solution to energy baseload needs, not nuclear.

> Batteries will be the long term solution to energy baseload needs, not nuclear. Viable baseload battery storage is science fiction. Nuclear works now, in this century.

AFAIK gravity storage is in the works now. Nuclear works, with large risks, but so does hydro, solar, wind, without the risks of nuclear. And as we're approaching effective fusion, starting to phase out construction of new nuclears makes complete sense.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of having cancer rates rise either. I've stated this before, and I'll repeat it here: Solar, wind, geothermal, and hydro are more than enough to power the world. They're cheaper too.

So, what would rise cancer rates? Coal or nuclear? IMO, the answer is counter-intuitive.

Coal is replaced by the renewables as mentioned above. If you replace coal with nuclear, nothing changes.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#44
post #2

No other fuel has the energy density of nuclear, no other source has the capability to run 24/7/365. Renewables are based on the hope that one day we will either had transcontinental grids, which no one has managed to build, or get batteries with energy storage seen only in Star Trek. Nuclear on the other hand has been here for 50 years and could have already solved our CO2 problems. But because it's unfashinable to…

> No other fuel has the energy density of nuclear

Irrelevant, unless you want to have a mobile power generator.

> no other source has the capability to run 24/7/365.

First, not true: Geothermal and hydro both can generate power 24/7/365. Yes, that is location dependent, but you set yourself up there with using absolutes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Iceland.)

Second, we do not need a single source to deliver 24/7/365, we need "just" a power-mix capable of delivering the changing power-demand over the day. Yes, that is a technical challenge. But nuclear is facing technical challenges too.

> Renewables are based on the hope that one day we will either had transcontinental grids, which no one has managed to build, or get batteries with energy storage seen only in Star Trek.

Hydro-power can act as energy storage, and it has been here since practical forever: Yes, not an universal solution. And yes, it puts more strain on the grid and requires more management. But I consider your point rather hyperbolical than factual considering the progress made there.

> Nuclear on the other hand has been here for 50 years and could have already solved our CO2 problems.

Sure, and the only reason we aren't there is because of those hippies. It isn't like half of the research budget since the 50s went to nuclear research, and only 11% to renewables (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2018/07/09/nuclear-...), most of it after the 70s.

It isn't like there are technical and nuclear anti-proliferation reasons why a new nuclear reactor require huge budgets to build and operate. Or that no insurance company in the world will cover the worst-case scenario, and there is always a limited liability of the operator of such plant.

I would suggest looking at the amount of resources (money and time) invested in both nuclear power and renewables and how the costs developed respectively over time, when doing your bet on either technology.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#46
post #31
post #2

No other fuel has the energy density of nuclear, no other source has the capability to run 24/7/365. Renewables are based on the hope that one day we will either had transcontinental grids, which no one has managed to build, or get batteries with energy storage seen only in Star Trek. Nuclear on the other hand has been here for 50 years and could have already solved our CO2 problems. But because it's unfashinable to…

I can't understand the downvotes you got. You pushed may be a bit on political stereotypes, but other than that you just stated the facts.

There's a lot of anti-nuclear sentiment on HN. Anyone that's in favour of it seems to always get downvoted.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#47
post #38
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables are based on the hope that one day we [...] get batteries with energy storage seen only in Star Trek. You're right that we aren't there yet, but Star Trek level technology is hyperbole. Just to give one example, the German gas grid can store several hundreds TWh of energy, and there are lab results that indicate we might be able to improve power-to-gas-to-power efficiencies to make this viable[1]. [1] http…

[1] is really interesting, but it is literally burning natural gas with extra steps. How is it better than normal gas generation?

Because you synthesize the gas, there's no net CO2 production.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#48
post #44
post #2

No other fuel has the energy density of nuclear, no other source has the capability to run 24/7/365. Renewables are based on the hope that one day we will either had transcontinental grids, which no one has managed to build, or get batteries with energy storage seen only in Star Trek. Nuclear on the other hand has been here for 50 years and could have already solved our CO2 problems. But because it's unfashinable to…

> No other fuel has the energy density of nuclear Irrelevant, unless you want to have a mobile power generator. > no other source has the capability to run 24/7/365. First, not true: Geothermal and hydro both can generate power 24/7/365. Yes, that is location dependent, but you set yourself up there with using absolutes ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Iceland .) Second, we do not need a single s…

I strongly doubt there's that many places where you can build some hydro plants which haven't been used yet. At least there's approximately none in Europe.

That's fine as a philosophical thought but in reality, all the hydro capacity is already used.

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#49
post #6

> Whether or not nuclear power costs too much will ultimately be a matter for markets to decide It’s not a market decision, but a government decision, as nuclear power has always been built with state guarantees and/or subsidies. This article also again equates safety with lack of deaths. That’s like saying a neighborhood is safe, because in the robberies there only a few people die. Chernobyl and Fukushima had drama…

I think you're mistaking Fukushima for the tsunami that caused the incident at the nuclear plant.

Let's not forget the sheer magnitude of the earthquake/tsunami: most powerful earthquake ever recorded in Japan, tsunami waves up to 40.5 meters

This fact sheet [1] from UNSCEAR (united nations agency) shows the impact of the nuclear incident itself:

* Cancer rates to remain stable

* Theoretical increased risk of thyroid cancers among most exposed children

* No impact on birth

* No discernible increase in cancer rates for workers

* Temporary impact on wildlife

It's a short fact sheet so I encourage you to read it completely

In comparison, the tsunami itself [2] killed over 15,000 people and still 200,000+ live away from their home

[1] https://www.unscear.org/docs/publications/2016/factsheet_en_...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_T%C5%8Dhoku_earthquake_an...

Re: Why Nuclear Must Be Part Of The Energy Solution (2018)

#50
The article does not explain why nuclear must be part of the energy solution. In fact, the argument seem to be that nuclear has been the target of fear mongering from environmentalists and therefore nuclear must be a part of the energy solution which is a fallacy.

Germany has decommissioned numerous nuclear plants (Energiewende) and yet its GDP is up and its coal consumption down. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c... Critics said it couldn't be done, except it was done. Critics claim that Energiewende isn't popular, except surveys show that it is supported by a super majority of Germans.

The main issue nuclear power's supporters ignore is that nuclear is much more expensive than renewables. According to LAZARD 14.0, the cost for wind is $26 to $54 per MWh and $129 to $198 for nuclear. https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-o... Furthermore a nuclear plant costs billions to construct and is an investment that takes decades before reaching its break-even point. That's not something the market is interested in, despite record-low capital costs around the world. Should the tax-payer subsidize an energy source that is already at least four times as expensive as wind which may, in a decade or two, be ten times as expensive?

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