Little League wants all your information • Hacker News Board

Re: Little League wants all your information

#161

Post by headmelted » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

kstrauser wrote: post #2

Oh hey, Hacker News! This is my post. I’m not strictly allergic to proving that I live in a certain place, so long as the evidence is securely deleted afterward. I’m very opposed to the idea that they can share all of those records with any of their partners or sponsors as they see fit. For example, “proof of residency 3” includes financial or medical records. Suppose that Large Corporation donates $1,000 to Little L…

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

To cut to the crux of it, the extensive document requirements are almost certainly due exclusively to child protection requirements that are not obvious to the rest of us as we’re not aware of the safeguards in place in the background. Cool. I’d be concerned if they weren’t taking those matters seriously.

How hard is it though to make it clear:

(1) how this information will be handled (2) how it will be stored/secured (3) when it will be deleted

.. separately from your sharing of data terms. They almost certainly have no intention of sharing that information with marketers or sponsors - it would be quite easy to make that clear.

I also think we’ll see handlers take privacy a lot more seriously now that the understanding of GDPR is trickling through these systems.

Sensitive data is still treated as a juicy little bonus for marketing departments instead of the radioactive plutonium that it is.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#162

Post by MrsPeaches » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

ketamine__ wrote: post #120

TylerE wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's typical self-righteous tech elitest drivel. What's not wrong with it? About the only thing missing is a reference to how anyone with two braincells uses Brave browser and buys bitcoin.

Actually, Brave gets a lot of hate here.

And so does bitcoin!

Re: Little League wants all your information

#163

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

caturopath wrote: post #146

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How did people coordinate this... I think you might be referring to a time when kids could play unsupervised and before independence-building play was replaced with wall-to-wall no-trespassing signs and overseen by a system that makes sure each minor transgression is forever leveraged into multiple, life-harming punishments.

Sports leagues have been a thing for generations, so it's worth noting that the answer to "What did you do before all this digital stuff" isn't "kids just did their own thing" -- they still organized leagues. (Fewer of them, to be sure.)

[deleted]

Re: Little League wants all your information

#164

Post by Teever » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

andrewguenther wrote: post #135

Teever wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. Yes, it is actually reasonably hard to coordinate 18+ kids and thier familes (thats the minimum size for two baseball teams), have an experienced adult coach them, and hire a referee (if that is judged to be necessary), coordinate field usage, advocate for local governments to set aside sports and play space and protect existing space from development. How did people coordinate this before the invention of all…

Pen and paper, the way most organizing was done before the digital age. You went to a community center, signed your kids up. Can you imagine organizing 18 kids without all these devices? Little League has been around since 1939, the need for a coordinating organization isn't a recent change.

I read in a history book that human beings managed to coordinate entire empires that stretched across continents with out digital electronics.

Facetiousness aside, I'm flabbergasted that I'm reading people on HN defend these kinds of abhorrent data collection and retention polices and using the difficulties of coordinating 18 people as an excuse for them.

It's like some cyber stockholm syndrome where people feel the need to make justifications for the behaviour of malevolent entities that they have wilfully shared their data with. The requests are so unbelievably intrusive that they remind me of the Ivy League nude posture photos[1]

I give it 6-24 months before we're reading a story here about a mass data leak from Little League or something equivalent like Boy Scouts of America or whatever.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League_nude_posture_photos

Re: Little League wants all your information

#165

Post by watwut » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:52 AM UTC

caturopath wrote: post #146

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How did people coordinate this... I think you might be referring to a time when kids could play unsupervised and before independence-building play was replaced with wall-to-wall no-trespassing signs and overseen by a system that makes sure each minor transgression is forever leveraged into multiple, life-harming punishments.

Sports leagues have been a thing for generations, so it's worth noting that the answer to "What did you do before all this digital stuff" isn't "kids just did their own thing" -- they still organized leagues. (Fewer of them, to be sure.)

If I recall right, sports leagues are a thing of 20centure. It was not much of a thing before.

It may or may not qualify as "generations".

Re: Little League wants all your information

#166

Post by watwut » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:55 AM UTC

Teever wrote: post #164

andrewguenther wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pen and paper, the way most organizing was done before the digital age. You went to a community center, signed your kids up. Can you imagine organizing 18 kids without all these devices? Little League has been around since 1939, the need for a coordinating organization isn't a recent change.

I read in a history book that human beings managed to coordinate entire empires that stretched across continents with out digital electronics. Facetiousness aside, I'm flabbergasted that I'm reading people on HN defend these kinds of abhorrent data collection and retention polices and using the difficulties of coordinating 18 people as an excuse for them. It's like some cyber stockholm syndrome where people feel the…

> I read in a history book that human beings managed to coordinate entire empires that stretched across continents with out digital electronics.

You asked specifically for little leagues. The across continents coordination is done by a.) delegating rulership to local warlords b.) keeping military power strong enough to keep those you those in check. It had massive limitation in terms of what it could achieve and has zero to do with organizing of competitions for kids.

Plus, the central power would not bother to micromanage little teams. It is our culture that finds little leagues important, not theirs.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#167

Post by krageon » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:56 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

kstrauser wrote: post #2

Oh hey, Hacker News! This is my post. I’m not strictly allergic to proving that I live in a certain place, so long as the evidence is securely deleted afterward. I’m very opposed to the idea that they can share all of those records with any of their partners or sponsors as they see fit. For example, “proof of residency 3” includes financial or medical records. Suppose that Large Corporation donates $1,000 to Little L…

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

> I think this is just

Whatever it might "just" be, these are the rights they claim. If it was "just" something benign, they could claim those rights. That's what you make legal write those documents for (and if you don't have one to write those documents, you shouldn't be making them at all).

The fact that they have claimed them and still have them means they feel like they might use those rights. That makes it evil.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#168

Post by watwut » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 10:04 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #140

kstrauser wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s what happens when you don’t have residency rules: Suppose you have suburb A next to suburb B. B has an awesome Little League local organization, but A’s is awful. Parents from A all send their kids to play ball in B. The problem is that B’s resources are finite, too: there are only so many baseball fields available for practice at a time, or batting practice cages, etc. And since the kids from A that are comin…

Why have it by residency then? Try out for a team, if you don’t get on it, try out for another one. It’s just kids playing ball, I don’t understand the high stakes. We used to just play pick up games in the park and that was fun too. No birth certificate required! Why is little league so serious?

> It’s just kids playing ball, I don’t understand the high stakes. We used to just play pick up games in the park and that was fun too. No birth certificate required! Why is little league so serious?

Dont be facetious. It is competitive league for little kids. It is not just kids playing sport for fun, as you said you need no organization for that. But, if what you want is competitions, coaches and performance, then you need an organized league.

It is different thing for kids/parents/families that are into that different competitive thing. Its existence is not preventing you to play ball with your own kids and their friends in park.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#169

Post by thih9 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

alisonkisk wrote: post #105

thih9 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just starting to forge documents (...) The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone Some might see sending forged documents as fraud; you'd intentionally deceive an organisation for personal gain, i.e. more privacy. (TINLA) Just to be clear, I also want more privacy; at the same time I'd prefer a different approach, e.g. shaming plus boycotting.

That's not what fraud means. If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud.

> If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud.

Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud.

> That's not what fraud means.

Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you?

Re: Little League wants all your information

#170

Post by macspoofing » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 11:55 AM UTC

kstrauser wrote: post #2

Oh hey, Hacker News! This is my post. I’m not strictly allergic to proving that I live in a certain place, so long as the evidence is securely deleted afterward. I’m very opposed to the idea that they can share all of those records with any of their partners or sponsors as they see fit. For example, “proof of residency 3” includes financial or medical records. Suppose that Large Corporation donates $1,000 to Little L…

On the face of it, it is certainly odd that so much information would be required as proof of residence. On the other side, I suspect there is a reason for that, namely, someone ruined it for the rest by trying to cheat. Some parents take kids sports very seriously and I have no doubt they would go to insane lengths to skirt any residency rules in place.