Little League wants all your information • Hacker News Board

Re: Little League wants all your information

#71

Post by chrissnell » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

kstrauser wrote: post #67

chrissnell wrote: post #64

Don't always assume bad intent with these sports leagues. I helped my son's tackle football league out with various organizational and website tasks because they didn't have anybody on the board that understood it well. Some parents are just better suited to teaching tackling technique than they are creating a web form that makes sense. I'm guessing that OP's league might be sponsored by the city and the city Parks &…

I agree with the sentiment, but this is a national-scale website and not a Django app someone locally tossed online.

Gotcha. I didn't realize LL was a big, national org when I wrote that comment. Knowing this now, my guess is that this form was created at the behest of some big law firm they retained to do this kind of stuff and that these attorneys have no kids in sports. No actual sports parent would want to subject anybody to such insanity.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#72

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #48

pridkett wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s referring to strict background checks for the volunteers.

Yes thanks to Larry Nassir and Jerry Sandusky every volunteer parent on every youth sports club is seen as a potential pedophile. Mandatory background checks, mandatory training on bullying, harassment, hazing, physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, and sexual misconduct is now required. It has really made it much more difficult for leagues to get volunteers because though many parents want to help, most don'…

[deleted]

Re: Little League wants all your information

#73

Post by throwawayboise » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #63

yTh0rly wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious since you actually went through the effort to be a part of the org: why do we need to formalize everything? Why not just get kids together to play baseball? Why capital Little capital League? Why do we have to normalize towards an organizational system? Academically it all makes sense; our scientific truth must be rigorously vetted. This all just feels like busy work for no gain for most people. I really…

You absolutely can find recreational leagues that are less rigorous - although for safety reasons they'll still tend to be particular about ages. Baseball is a relatively dangerous sport if there's a massive imbalance. It's important that pitch speed, bat speed, reaction times, and overall mass scale up smoothly and roughly uniformly. The reason why it's so formalized beyond that is that travel ball at 11-12 years ol…

> you don't get to play for the high school varsity team unless you're getting the coaching from the top-tier youth leagues

This is pretty much the case. By age 12 or so, the local kids who have skill and interest have been identified. They are shunted out of the parks and rec leagues into travel teams and they play together up to high school. Of course there are still tryouts but if you're a freshman and unknown to the coaches, you have to be either a move-in who has been playing travel ball elsewhere, or one of the rare naturals at pitching or hitting to really get noticed at that point.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#74

Post by throwawayboise » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:14 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #68

chrissnell wrote: post #64

Don't always assume bad intent with these sports leagues. I helped my son's tackle football league out with various organizational and website tasks because they didn't have anybody on the board that understood it well. Some parents are just better suited to teaching tackling technique than they are creating a web form that makes sense. I'm guessing that OP's league might be sponsored by the city and the city Parks &…

Why is there any bureaucracy to Little League in the first place, though? Like why do we need to be doing any of this? > To sign kids up for our city’s Little League baseball program, you have to prove that they’re residents, which is reasonable. I don't really get that. What are we scared of here? People coming over the border to steal Little League coaching for their children? Is that a major concern somewhere?

> What are we scared of here? People coming over the border to steal Little League coaching for their children?

Yes, exactly this. It happens. It really does. In all sports. And not just parents seeking out "good" teams and coaches, but coaches recruiting kids to play. It gets to the point where parents put their kids in online schools, or private schools operated by a travel sports organization, so that they can get more practice time and more games.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#75

Post by parsimo2010 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:16 AM UTC

ape4 wrote: post #12

Why do they "need" 3 proofs of residency?!

You occasionally hear about faked birth certificates being used to get over age players or foreigners (Cubans) on a team. There is enough money at stake for these kids at the national level for a few people to try it. Cheating is almost minigame inside of baseball at this point.

I don’t know if requiring three forms of ID/residency is the right solution, but I at least understand the motivation. They are probably operating under the assumption that it’s harder to fake three government documents than it is to fake one. It’s definitely more time consuming and expensive, and that alone will deter some cheaters.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#76

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

yTh0rly wrote: post #43

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

I’m curious since you actually went through the effort to be a part of the org: why do we need to formalize everything? Why not just get kids together to play baseball? Why capital Little capital League? Why do we have to normalize towards an organizational system? Academically it all makes sense; our scientific truth must be rigorously vetted. This all just feels like busy work for no gain for most people. I really…

> Why not just get kids together to play baseball?

You can, if everyone trusts everyone involved, and you just want some casual fun. But beyond that...

Some of the developmental/training issues have been mentioned, as well as some allusion to safety. Also related is liability; do it enough and there are going to be injuries, some of them serious. And if you haven't planned for this, it's quite easy for someone to unexpectedly end up responsible for a huge unexpected liability.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#77

Post by topkai22 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:19 AM UTC

yTh0rly wrote: post #43

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

I’m curious since you actually went through the effort to be a part of the org: why do we need to formalize everything? Why not just get kids together to play baseball? Why capital Little capital League? Why do we have to normalize towards an organizational system? Academically it all makes sense; our scientific truth must be rigorously vetted. This all just feels like busy work for no gain for most people. I really…

>> Is it so hard to set up a game between your kids and others?

Yes. Yes, it is actually reasonably hard to coordinate 18+ kids and thier familes (thats the minimum size for two baseball teams), have an experienced adult coach them, and hire a referee (if that is judged to be necessary), coordinate field usage, advocate for local governments to set aside sports and play space and protect existing space from development.

Now are many American youth sports leagues a bit nuts about the competitive or developmental aspects? Absolutely, and baseball is one of the worst. I really want a checkbox that says "do you want your kids to play in the major leagues some day" so I can not check that and hang out with other parents just there for fun. But coordinating sports and recreation (and ensuring space and facilities for sports and recreation exist in the first place) is not a trivial exercise and is why most local governments have an entire department set aside for it. Parks and Recreation may be a funny and absurd series, but in real life those people do real work that has real benefits.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#78

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #75

ape4 wrote: post #12

Why do they "need" 3 proofs of residency?!

You occasionally hear about faked birth certificates being used to get over age players or foreigners (Cubans) on a team. There is enough money at stake for these kids at the national level for a few people to try it. Cheating is almost minigame inside of baseball at this point. I don’t know if requiring three forms of ID/residency is the right solution, but I at least understand the motivation. They are probably ope…

> They are probably operating under the assumption that it’s harder to fake three government documents than it is to fake one.

While there are government documents in all three categories, none of the categories requires government documents. Or documents which have much verification behind them.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#79

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

yTh0rly wrote: post #43

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

I’m curious since you actually went through the effort to be a part of the org: why do we need to formalize everything? Why not just get kids together to play baseball? Why capital Little capital League? Why do we have to normalize towards an organizational system? Academically it all makes sense; our scientific truth must be rigorously vetted. This all just feels like busy work for no gain for most people. I really…

[deleted]

Re: Little League wants all your information

#80

Post by throwawayboise » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

dusing wrote: post #45

kstrauser wrote: post #2

Oh hey, Hacker News! This is my post. I’m not strictly allergic to proving that I live in a certain place, so long as the evidence is securely deleted afterward. I’m very opposed to the idea that they can share all of those records with any of their partners or sponsors as they see fit. For example, “proof of residency 3” includes financial or medical records. Suppose that Large Corporation donates $1,000 to Little L…

Do you recall who the service provider was for the organization. Like SportEngine (owned by NBC) etc…? I think this is a major issue since most are large companies that can and will sell that data to highest bidder.

SportsEngine is just awful in every way. If you're on a youth sports board, push for something else. Anything else.