Little League wants all your information • Hacker News Board

Re: Little League wants all your information

#21

Post by abeyer » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

bruceb wrote: post #14

People complain about data harvesting (and I don't want mine harvested either) but would would also balk at paying the "true" cost of some things if the data being sold subsidy was removed. Shorter: You get what you pay for.

Can you show some evidence that large scale data collection has been part of Little League since 1939 and pricing is based on that?

Longer: People love to stand up this false dichotomy between accepting massive individual data collection or not having advertising at all. When, in fact, advertising existed for thousands of years without it and was already a huge lucrative industry.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#22

Post by Turing_Machine » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

throwawaygulf wrote: post #4

I'm just starting to forge documents for this garbage. School records? Easy, download them, change my address to one a few miles away in the same city, change a few numbers of my SSN, etc. Same goes for utility bills, financial records, etc. Fuck the data miners. The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone. The address is still one in my city. They never do any actual verification so it always wor…

I like to use the names of famous serial killers and mass murderers when I don't feel like giving my real one.

So far, no one has called me on it.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#23

Post by kstrauser » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

kstrauser wrote: post #2

Oh hey, Hacker News! This is my post. I’m not strictly allergic to proving that I live in a certain place, so long as the evidence is securely deleted afterward. I’m very opposed to the idea that they can share all of those records with any of their partners or sponsors as they see fit. For example, “proof of residency 3” includes financial or medical records. Suppose that Large Corporation donates $1,000 to Little L…

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

I personally think you're right: it was written overly broadly and allows for things that Little League would never do in practice. I think they're a good organization and didn't mean any evil when they set this up.

That said, the end result is a pretty bad combination of things. It's a little annoying but not the end of the world when I start getting spam for batting cages after registration. It would be a whole different animal if I started getting ads for medicines based on the medical records I had uploaded to register. (Hypothetically speaking, of course; I'd never upload anything that sensitive, and I don't think Little League would ever actually do that.)

Interestingly they never asked for proof of age. I think that happens in person with the coaches, but I haven't thought about this since about a year ago and didn't really pay attention to remember exactly how that worked.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#24

Post by thih9 » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

throwawaygulf wrote: post #4

I'm just starting to forge documents for this garbage. School records? Easy, download them, change my address to one a few miles away in the same city, change a few numbers of my SSN, etc. Same goes for utility bills, financial records, etc. Fuck the data miners. The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone. The address is still one in my city. They never do any actual verification so it always wor…

> I'm just starting to forge documents (...) The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone

Some might see sending forged documents as fraud; you'd intentionally deceive an organisation for personal gain, i.e. more privacy. (TINLA)

Just to be clear, I also want more privacy; at the same time I'd prefer a different approach, e.g. shaming plus boycotting.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#25

Post by kstrauser » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

adjkant wrote: post #15

ape4 wrote: post #12

Why do they "need" 3 proofs of residency?!

I'm reminded of the scene in The Politician where they aren't letting a high school student vote for student body president because she doesn't have her school ID on her by saying "if we let anyone vote, they would just bus in kids from other schools". Feels like about the same level of importance. I suppose you could theoretically have all the best players apply for the league in one area to try and game the system…

I think the real problem comes when one area has a better run organization than neighboring areas. Then parents from the neighboring areas flood the registration and local kids end up getting cut from the team. That's the sort of thing I think Little League's trying to prevent.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#26

Post by krumpet » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #13

kstrauser wrote: post #2

Oh hey, Hacker News! This is my post. I’m not strictly allergic to proving that I live in a certain place, so long as the evidence is securely deleted afterward. I’m very opposed to the idea that they can share all of those records with any of their partners or sponsors as they see fit. For example, “proof of residency 3” includes financial or medical records. Suppose that Large Corporation donates $1,000 to Little L…

I think this is just poorly written, or written to fit all use cases. There is a lot behind little league, and it’s not obvious until you get into it. I was on a little league board. In my state, we had pretty strict background check requirements, and those providers were the “trusted partners” that were given sensitive information. Now, little league volunteers are mandated reporters in New York, so the government g…

Pretty strict background check? Just so your kid can play Little League? Please help me understand why.

If the parent were signing up to coach, I could understand. But just to have a kid in the league. I don't get it.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#27

Post by kstrauser » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #20

ape4 wrote: post #12

Why do they "need" 3 proofs of residency?!

Like any serious hobby, people are people and do stupid shit. You know how nerds kill each other about systemd, vi vs emacs, C vs Rust? Crazy parents will pull together a group of 11 year olds from 30 miles away to beat your 8/9 year old to get into a tournament.

I've been involved in various baseball and softball leagues in two different states, and I 100% vouch for every word of the above. Anyone who's been involved with little kid sports knows this is utterly plausible and not even slightly exaggerated.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#28

Post by Turing_Machine » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

kjakm wrote: post #10

Is “Little League” a national organisation? I always assumed it just meant a kids baseball game and that would be something run by the local community. If it’s the former...why does such an organisation even need to exist?

There are a lot of local kids' baseball leagues that aren't Little League, it's worth mentioning.

The one I played in when I was a kid was called "(Local Area Name) Baseball for Boys" (yeah, it was a while ago).

Probably the people running Little League have all kinds of lucrative deals going on, as is the norm with "non-profits".

According to the article linked below, in 2012 Little League had revenue of almost $25 million and assets of more than $85 million, and the CEO raked in $430,000 per year in salary.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2014/08/22/little-leag...

Re: Little League wants all your information

#29

Post by geerlingguy » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:18 PM UTC

kjakm wrote: post #10

Is “Little League” a national organisation? I always assumed it just meant a kids baseball game and that would be something run by the local community. If it’s the former...why does such an organisation even need to exist?

Same question here. I guess I was never too deep in local baseball growing up, but I played on a team in a local league that did 'state' finals (but nothing national). There were also 'select' clubs that I played on a couple years before deciding to focus on volleyball going into high school, but AFAICR they weren't affiliated with any national organization.

Re: Little League wants all your information

#30

Post by kstrauser » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

thih9 wrote: post #24

throwawaygulf wrote: post #4

I'm just starting to forge documents for this garbage. School records? Easy, download them, change my address to one a few miles away in the same city, change a few numbers of my SSN, etc. Same goes for utility bills, financial records, etc. Fuck the data miners. The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone. The address is still one in my city. They never do any actual verification so it always wor…

> I'm just starting to forge documents (...) The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone Some might see sending forged documents as fraud; you'd intentionally deceive an organisation for personal gain, i.e. more privacy. (TINLA) Just to be clear, I also want more privacy; at the same time I'd prefer a different approach, e.g. shaming plus boycotting.

More practically, if you get caught then your kid probably gets banned from the league. This might be pretty hard to explain to a younger child in terms that would make them appreciate that you're doing it for the right reasons.