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Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

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Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#161

Post by totalZero »

shawnz wrote: post #41
WJW wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since they lose 100% of the stuff that made BTC attractive in the first place Not so. They still allow speculation on BTC price volatility and "get rich quick" gambles is what drove most of Bitcoin growth in the past few years. If anything, the big exchanges make Bitcoin even more suitable for speculation than if it was on the blockchain, since you can trade way more if you don't have to wait several blocks for you…

Making it easier to speculate should in theory decrease volatility and make market manipulation harder, since having more speculators should mean that the price is driven to its fair value more quickly.

That might make sense if bitcoin were a commodity, but it's not. Speculation helps in markets where there are cross-market arbitrages available -- the stat-arb speculators can front-run the true arbitrageurs and keep markets in line with one another -- but that's not really the case with bitcoin.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#162

Post by totalZero »

tiku wrote: post #100
mrfinn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It becomes a Ponzi scheme the moment you realize that the idea is intrinsically broken, but still you keep shilling it and making grow the value exponentially, (value that somebody has to pay). BTW, flagged, really mods??

When does a Ponzi scheme stop being a Ponzi scheme?

This is a really, truly weird way to defend Bitcoin, whose claim to fame is that its only value comes from its uptake. The argument goes, "governments can fiat money, so why can't we?"

There is no unique creation of value anywhere in the Bitcoin life cycle. Any liquidity or anonymity externality that doesn't equally apply to USD is probably accruable only by criminals and traffickers.

The transactions are slow and costly, and there's no guarantee that some governmental research agency hasn't already broken the cryptographic underpinnings.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#163

Post by ffggvv »

is bitcoin truly decentralized? in the sense that there’s a centralized ledger that anyone can access and see transactions? i know the ledger is copied and decentralized to all nodes but for instance if i go on the street corner and buy something with cash, no one in the world knows other than the participants. with bitcoin everyone in the world knows and it’s recorded for all time

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#165

Post by SamReidHughes »

rualca wrote: post #52
riffraff wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as it's been pointed out by many people in many circumstances, the whole cryptocurrency story so far has been a progressive reinvention of the modern financial system, including many of the intermediary steps.

I wouldn't go as far as calling it a reinvention of the modern financial system, but I would call it a reinvention of the Dutch tulip mania[1], with the notable exception that tulips do have some tangible value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

The other obvious exception is that bitcoins don’t self-replicate.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#166

Post by ta988 »

shawnz wrote: post #41
WJW wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since they lose 100% of the stuff that made BTC attractive in the first place Not so. They still allow speculation on BTC price volatility and "get rich quick" gambles is what drove most of Bitcoin growth in the past few years. If anything, the big exchanges make Bitcoin even more suitable for speculation than if it was on the blockchain, since you can trade way more if you don't have to wait several blocks for you…

Making it easier to speculate should in theory decrease volatility and make market manipulation harder, since having more speculators should mean that the price is driven to its fair value more quickly.

That's assuming that 1) there is a fair value for bitcoin 2) the market is able to assess and direct bitcoin to that fair value (through the actions of its participants). I tend to believe that this economical " theory" is much more a belief/mantra than anything proved scientifically...

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#167

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

Traster wrote: post #21

It is kind of funny that exchanges have become so successful for Bitcoin- since they lose 100% of the stuff that made BTC attractive in the first place. They’re centralised, regulated and transactions don’t even go on the blockchain. The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin.

There must be an entry point. After you bought you BTC, you can withdraw it, and use it to pay for things, store privately etc.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#168

Post by bombadilo »

I've been reading hacker news for years and I can't recall any piece of technology that seems to attract such vitriol and disdain from the community here.

Certain bitcoin criticisms are understandable, but painting the block chain and the whole crypto industry with a broad brush of 'scam', 'shady', 'useless' is just down right moronic and embarrassing.

Many of you claim to be technologists that leverage the power of technology to benefit humanity. Yet you can't plainly see how various projects in the space like ethereum, nano, chain link, cardano etc. have useful applications that will change the landscape of finance and economics forever.

Painfully cynical bunch you lot are.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#169

Post by anonisko »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #167
Traster wrote: post #21

It is kind of funny that exchanges have become so successful for Bitcoin- since they lose 100% of the stuff that made BTC attractive in the first place. They’re centralised, regulated and transactions don’t even go on the blockchain. The result is that the number 1 way people get into Bitcoin is through a mechanism that has none of the attributes of Bitcoin.

There must be an entry point. After you bought you BTC, you can withdraw it, and use it to pay for things, store privately etc.

A true cypherpunk would say that everyone should just start earning bitcoin directly to enter.

Re: Coinbase mafia shows how tight a circle holds sway over Bitcoin

#170

Post by andresp »

dmitriid wrote: post #80
iso1210 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the fair value of bitcoin? It will never provide dividends or other types of future cashflows, so that aspect of its fair value is zero. The remaining part is purely speculative in that it is based on what other people will pay for it. Do Swiss Franks pay dividends or other types of cashflows? If I have 50,000 CHF in a box in my cupboard, what value is it beyond a small amount of fuel to burn? At some point…

> If I have 50,000 CHF in a box in my cupboard, what value is it beyond a small amount of fuel to burn? You are so close to understanding the true value of bitcoin.

A sub optimal way of producing thermal energy (at least in for the miners)?
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