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Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

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Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#161

Post by _bohm »

m0rti wrote: post #154
_bohm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PKK was formed in reaction to intense oppression of the Kurdish people by the Turkish State. The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned, and Kurdish history was not allowed to be taught. The Turkish State also burned Kurdish villages and slaughtered many Kurds. None of this is to say that the PKK has not committed acts which would surely offend western sensibilities, but simply slapping the "terrorist"…

Terrorist is an ideological word, therefore it doesn’t always represent everyone’s views of a certain group. Terrorist groups born as a reaction to heavy injustice. Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians motivate a lot of members of the most popular terrorist groups today. This has always been like this, we don’t live in a cartoon where the bad guy is 2 dimensional. To try to understand these groups’ motivatio…

> Terrorist is an ideological word, therefore it doesn’t always represent everyone’s views of a certain group.

> This has always been like this, we don’t live in a cartoon where the bad guy is 2 dimensional.

I completely agree and this was more or less the point of my comment. I'm not attempting to justify the actions of any group in particular, and I certainly don't endorse the use of indiscriminate violence against civilians for any reason.

I'm often bothered by the use of the word "terrorist" because I think it is often used as a means of putting us into this 2 dimensional world and creating a shortcut out of meaningful discussions. I will be the first to admit that my own government is guilty of terrorism under most definitions that people in my part of the world use.

I appreciate your comment, and apologize if mine came off as callous towards people who are suffering as a result of this conflict.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#162

Post by missedthecue »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #36
Barrin92 wrote: post #29

It's the correct decision (although Facebook likely only cares about its bottom line). the YPG is designated as a terrorist organisation by the Turkish state and it's quite obvious that Turkey will want to exercise sovereignty over its communication channels rather than letting an opposing military force broadcast freely to its citizens. It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way fo…

It’s the wrong decision but no private company should be in a position to make it. The power that we have granted to centralized extralegal entities is obscene and we’re going to pay for it in blood if we don’t walk this back quickly by breaking up these orgs and building technologies that decentralize that power.

What would breaking up Facebook.com look like in a way that successfully prevents what you're describing?

It's not an oil conglomerate. It's a social network. That's irreducible by definition. Most people seem to throw out suggestions like forcing them to spin off Instagram and WhatsApp. That clearly wouldn't fix what youre saying is the issue. IG and WhatsApp would still be run by the same people, still owned in part by Zuckerberg, and still have the same incentives and goals. Essentially the only difference is that the employer name on the W-2s would change.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#163

Post by Bombthecat »

input_sh wrote: post #151
Ahmed90 wrote: post #41

It's an obvious "following the local law" thingy, Facebook doesn't give a s*t, I personally reported 3 posts on different FB pages 1st was a religion extremist guy who says to Iraqi people that they should protest and fight the "other side" of the religion (aka start a new civil war) instead of protesting against the corrupted government. 2nd was a post that was praising the guy who murdered the Danish (Or was he Nor…

I've given up during the time when ISIS regularly posted videos on social media. I've reported a video with a literal beheading about two thirds of the video in, and it didn't go against Facebook's community standards. I guess whichever moderator saw it didn't bother to skip ahead during those like 5-10 seconds they reach their decision in.

They probably don't have the time. Next time report with timestamp?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#165

Post by throwaway316943 »

missedthecue wrote: post #162
throwaway316943 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the wrong decision but no private company should be in a position to make it. The power that we have granted to centralized extralegal entities is obscene and we’re going to pay for it in blood if we don’t walk this back quickly by breaking up these orgs and building technologies that decentralize that power.

What would breaking up Facebook.com look like in a way that successfully prevents what you're describing? It's not an oil conglomerate. It's a social network. That's irreducible by definition. Most people seem to throw out suggestions like forcing them to spin off Instagram and WhatsApp. That clearly wouldn't fix what youre saying is the issue. IG and WhatsApp would still be run by the same people, still owned in par…

A death knell legislation would be better. Like making social networks entirely responsible for the content posted by their users so that it’s impossible to grow beyond a certain scale and still be functional. Or maybe enforcing interoperability so that users can take their data and friends elsewhere.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#166

Post by tinco »

bitcharmer wrote: post #5
discobot1 wrote: post #4

Facebook is following laws of countries it operates in, truly shocking

Not very uplifting if you account for who's ruling Turkey and establishing these laws, is it?

As much as I loathe Erdogan for being a fascist prick, he was democratically elected, and I don't think it's much disputed he holds popular support. Though I haven't been to Turkey recently so I can't say that with certainty.

I'd love for Facebook to have some sort of ethical standard to adhere to, but we can't even get our own governments that we elect democratically to behave ethically, how could we expect it from corporations?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#167

Post by bcherny »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #36
Barrin92 wrote: post #29

It's the correct decision (although Facebook likely only cares about its bottom line). the YPG is designated as a terrorist organisation by the Turkish state and it's quite obvious that Turkey will want to exercise sovereignty over its communication channels rather than letting an opposing military force broadcast freely to its citizens. It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way fo…

It’s the wrong decision but no private company should be in a position to make it. The power that we have granted to centralized extralegal entities is obscene and we’re going to pay for it in blood if we don’t walk this back quickly by breaking up these orgs and building technologies that decentralize that power.

I agree that decentralized moderation is right, in theory. What does that look like in practice — Reddit-style downvoting?

And do you really think the really bad stuff — child porn, terrorist recruitment, and so on, that FB/Twitter/Google already detect with ML 99% of the time — should be decentralized too?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#169

Post by ryoshu »

alienalp wrote: post #89
hnarn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a reductive argument. Are you saying that a private corporation is never responsible for its actions if they are compliant with a nations laws? Is there no limit to what you consider OK for a corporation to do within a nations borders, as long as the action is sanctioned by the government? Do all corporations have literally zero responsibility to uphold any kind of moral that isn’t enforced in local law?

YPG is terrorist organization according to Turkey and many relevant countries and even US officials don't deny its connections with PKK. They maybe freedom fighters for Biden but it is not seen that way in middle east. Especially to whom lost their kids in car bombs.

https://www.facebook.com/Proud-Boys-Canada-102480378379388/

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#170

Post by Bakary »

egeozcan wrote: post #85
cblconfederate wrote: post #80

Topic being overrun by expat turks who are Erdogan apologizers. Not the first, not the last, but thankfully the truth is not subject to upvotes

As a Turkish immigrant in Germany, I really find the word "expat" irritating. Why should I make it explicitly clear that my immigration happened on my own terms? Apart from that, the sheer amount of Turkish immigrants who left the country in the last decade (including me) are not Erdoğan supporters. However, many of us refrain from heavy criticism as we occasionally go to Turkey to visit our relatives and we don't wa…

Ironically people sometimes intentionally use the word expat to avoid the "western people are expats, non-westerners are immigrants" terminology trap
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