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Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

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Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Turkish immigrant in Germany, I really find the word "expat" irritating. Why should I make it explicitly clear that my immigration happened on my own terms? Apart from that, the sheer amount of Turkish immigrants who left the country in the last decade (including me) are not Erdoğan supporters. However, many of us refrain from heavy criticism as we occasionally go to Turkey to visit our relatives and we don't wa…

> many of us refrain from heavy criticism If the people who can speak up don't speak up then how is change ever to be expected? This is btw not what usually happens in such situations (immigrants fleeing authoritarianism are generally vocal against it)

I can give some background on this, I immigrated from Russia to the US when I was 5 and I still have a ton of extended family that lives there.

Do I like Putin or what Russia is doing? Hell no. But at the same time I'm not going to saying anything negative in public about Russia. If I got on the Russian governments radar forget what they will do to me, I live in America, what will they do to my Grandmother, my uncles, my nieces, my cousins?

I don't know what they will do, and for that reason I cannot risk saying anything.

The same applies in places like Turkey, China, etc. Yeah you might not like what the govt there is doing, but at the same time you can't risk speaking up and having the blowback taken out on your family that still lives there.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#112

Topic being overrun by expat turks who are Erdogan apologizers. Not the first, not the last, but thankfully the truth is not subject to upvotes

This shallow understanding of Turkish politics, is gonna come to impact western influence in middle east adversely very soon. More so European interests in short term, and US influence globally on the long run. I have been reading comments similar to yours. Your view is nothing but naive / pure romanticism. There is a large amount of us (Turks of all opinions), just reading silently. Yet you are confident enough to s…

So how’s that whole ethnic purging of the Kurds going these days?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of themselves and their families in jeopardy over thousands of years to live in the free and open societies that you are now taking for granted.

FTFY : Germans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of people of color in Africa, India, Americas and their families in jeopardy over half a thousand year to democratise systems across their population to live in free and open societies that we are now able to migrate to.

So, the revolutions in Europe (which lead to democratization) happened because of whatever happened in Africa, India and the Americas? Or what do you mean?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#114
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a product of the United States you would hope that they would stand up for freedom of speech/expression as much as possible and take a principled stand occasionally.

There's a thin line between taking a principled stand and forcefully exporting your values to some other culture. For example, Germany outlaws Holocaust denial. It's not a crime in the US. Should Facebook follow German laws by taking down posts denying the Holocaust? Obviously they should follow local laws, most of us would agree. Here's the thing - there's only two principled stands here. Either tech giants always f…

Tech giants can’t force anything on anyone without being enabled by the local government. If Facebook does not follow German law, Germany will ban it and seize its German assets to pay the fines it owes.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#116
Facebook is indeed a tool for authoritarians.

Facebook becomes the major, if not the only, online channel for citizens of a country.

Facebook adheres to orders of an authoritarian leader. Authoritarian leaders easily shuts out opposition to his/her regime.

Authoritarian leaders didn't have to spend much money and resources to do this. Facebook did it for them!

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#117

There are no good solutions here. Should Facebook ignore Turkish law? Should they go by the US' terror organisation list instead? Should they maintain their own "terrorist list" alongside Turkey & the US'? Separate classifications of illegal or immoral content for in every jurisdiction? You think there are political biases in American FB or Twitter? ... Try FB in a language or political context that no FB executive e…

> no good solutions

Yeah there are no good ones, facebook is clearly morally wrong, but they are not in the business of morals anyway.

Let's see if their ever-socially-conscious advertisers will "pull out" their ads in protest again

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#118

Well, isn't it ironic that many people here appaled by this kind of censorship were backing the same GAFAs when they kicked Trump of their platforms ? Oh yes i know, "it's not comparable because...", well, yes, it IS perfectly comparable and it is in fact the same.

> Well, isn't it ironic that many people here appaled by this kind of censorship were backing the same GAFAs when they kicked Trump of their platforms People need to stop saying stuff like this. It's not like you looked through people's account histories or remember how specific accounts speaking today came down on that issue in the past.

From one of the flagged comments in this thread:

> Good.

> Nice to see they don't have double standards, since they also silenced for example an enemy of US - Donald Trump.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#119

I'll leave this here in case anyone wants to argue YPG is not PKK. YPG is a literal terrorist organization. Imagine ISIS had a Facebook page. "Senior US general explains rebranding YPG away from terror group PKK" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHpaIO-Pj10

The YPG and affiliated groups are designated as terrorist organizations by only Turkey and Qatar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units

20 million Kurds not having a state despite their will to have it is a major injustice in this world.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#120
post #3
post #2

To elaborate on the title, “silenced” means: > [YPG’s page] can’t be viewed by Facebook users inside Turkey > The page is still available on Facebook to people who view the site through U.S. internet providers. And “enemy of Turkey”: > Turkey considers the YPG a terrorist organization, although neither the U.S. nor Facebook do.

Yeah, "terrorist" is kind of a floating designator. The YPG should be distinguished from the PKK in this instance. The UK takes occasional erratic action against the YPG: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/terroris...

YPG is actually run by the same PKK elements, Mazloum Abdi as an example. And both are under the same KCK umbrella of far leftist Kurdish organizations; Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Turkey, Democratic Union Party (PYD under which YPG operates) in Syria, Kurdistan Free Life Party (PJAK) in Iran, and Kurdistan Democratic Solution Party (PÇDK) in Iraq.

I'm not saying it is terrorist organization or not, but it's inconsistent to have one of these organizations on the terrorists list and others not, since they all share the same ideology, goals, and tactics.

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