Live data from Hacker News

Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

web.cs.ucla.edu

21–30 of 88 posts

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#21
I think there is a wirelrss revolution around the corner being held up by patents, closed chipsets, and closed firmwares.

Look at what was necessary in this papet, thr IoT device pretends to be an access point to bypass all the layers in the stack that would filter out thr packet.

In this case they found a hack to workaround chipset/firmware limitations, but what other innovations havent happened due to inaccesible wireless physical layers?

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#22
post #18

What I’d love to see is my Mac be able to connect my Zoom or Teams meetings to my AirPods via my iPhone (on wifi) so that I can freely run to the kitchen without losing Bluetooth connection.

The Teams iOS app does audio hand-off really well in my experience. Have you tried that?

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#23
post #18

What I’d love to see is my Mac be able to connect my Zoom or Teams meetings to my AirPods via my iPhone (on wifi) so that I can freely run to the kitchen without losing Bluetooth connection.

I just always use my phone for zoom instead of my MacBook. About the only feature I like of MS Teams, is the ability to switch devices easily. It only works for scheduled meetings, not calls though.

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#24

I hope so. I have issues with BT about once every time I use it.

I’ve heard multiple times that apparently a lot of proprietary Bluetooth stacks are filled to the brim with bugs. I’m not sure how complex the Bluetooth spec is but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. It’s also part of why I can’t stand the trend of remove the headphone jack from devices.

I've read chunks of the bluetooth spec and while I didn't wind up spending very long actually using it, the vibe I got was that of a committee composed of architecture astronauts who pumped out pages by the truckload and applications engineers who could never agree on anything. The standard is very heavy on abstract cruft and very light on constraining decisions, which is probably why 30 years later we still have pairing issues with headphones.

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard multiple times that apparently a lot of proprietary Bluetooth stacks are filled to the brim with bugs. I’m not sure how complex the Bluetooth spec is but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. It’s also part of why I can’t stand the trend of remove the headphone jack from devices.

I've read chunks of the bluetooth spec and while I didn't wind up spending very long actually using it, the vibe I got was that of a committee composed of architecture astronauts who pumped out pages by the truckload and applications engineers who could never agree on anything. The standard is very heavy on abstract cruft and very light on constraining decisions, which is probably why 30 years later we still have pai…

Oh but the next version has fixed that, uses less energy and is going to be great, as per every Bluetooth press release every single year.

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#26

Yes, or, at least it has been used to do so. Microsoft's xbox 360/xbox one USB controller adapter is actually a standard wifi adapter with a custom firmware. Source: https://github.com/medusalix/xow#how-it-works

That's due to range and especially latency issues with Bluetooth. It's one reason competitive shooters were more popular on the 360 than the Ps3 with its Bluetooth gamepad.

There's been extensive study into the latency difference between 360 controllers and ps3 controllers. There is virtually none and it's definitely not noticeable with all the other latency sources in the signal chain.

Edit: one public, easy to digest source

https://www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeague/comments/8wvf9u/contro...

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#27

Yes, or, at least it has been used to do so. Microsoft's xbox 360/xbox one USB controller adapter is actually a standard wifi adapter with a custom firmware. Source: https://github.com/medusalix/xow#how-it-works

Is it still the case for the new Xbox?

Interesting the newer Xbox controllers can connect over Bluetooth with windows 10, but I found it much flakier than using their dedicated wireless adapter (which I guess works much more like the hardware in an actually Xbox)

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it still the case for the new Xbox?

Yes, the Xbox Series controllers are fully interoperable with the Xbox One, which they wouldn't be if they switched to some other technique.

Actually I think they switched to just bluetooth now, or at least the new ones can connect to my computer/phone just through bluetooth without an adapter (the old ones did require one though)

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#29

I hope so. I have issues with BT about once every time I use it.

I’ve heard multiple times that apparently a lot of proprietary Bluetooth stacks are filled to the brim with bugs. I’m not sure how complex the Bluetooth spec is but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true. It’s also part of why I can’t stand the trend of remove the headphone jack from devices.

> I’m not sure how complex the Bluetooth spec is but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true

Pretty complex.

Re: Wi-LE: Can WiFi replace Bluetooth? (2019) [pdf]

#30
post #7

I hope not. For one thing, Bluetooth consumes less battery. Also, when the topic of Bluetooth comes up, many people complain that they have Bluetooth issues. Sadly, some manufacturers do not care about interoperability. Maybe I'm just lucky but I don't even recall when I would've had issues with Bluetooth. I use several devices practically every day (car, headphones, speakers).

As the paper explains. At the actual energy consumption level, the modulation techniques used by WiFi are about 3 times more efficient than Bluetooth.

The whole premise of the article is that this allows for efficient use of WiFi hardware to emulate BLE like behaviour.

Post reply on HN