Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#31

Post by auntienomen » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

agravier wrote: post #20

eloff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a payment system (unless the transaction is sufficiently large). It's more like digital gold. But gold has a track record of holding value over millennia. Bitcoin is only a decade old. Will it hold up over time? Nobody actually knows.

> Its not a payment system (unless the transaction is sufficiently large). > It's more like digital gold. As explained by the famous paper: "Bitcoin: Definitely Not A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System"

And rebutted in the equally well known "Bitcoin: A Comically Badly Designed and Completely Dysfunctional Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System".

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#32

Post by eurasiantiger » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #12

juanbyrge wrote: post #7

It is quite pathetic that a purported 'future of payments' is so inefficient in so many ways. This is why I will never participate in systems like bitcoin that consume hundreds of TwH (and growing) each year.

In my view, "law of unintended consequences" looms large here. On the other hand, "proof of work" reminds me that the equivalence of heat and work was proven more than 150 years ago by Joule.

That equivalence exists in the domain of classical physics.

Bitcoin only exists in semiconductor systems: its ineffectiveness stems from the extra logical layer (gates on silicon) which, while based on quantum effects, does not utilize quantum effects directly for calculation.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#33

Post by renewiltord » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #24

eloff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a payment system (unless the transaction is sufficiently large). It's more like digital gold. But gold has a track record of holding value over millennia. Bitcoin is only a decade old. Will it hold up over time? Nobody actually knows.

> Nobody actually knows. We could make an educated guess, however. Gold has intrinsic value, which gives it a significant advantage over a tiny arrangement of bits in an ocean of them.

The intrinsic value of gold is a fraction of what it trades for.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#34

Post by hashkb » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #25

juanbyrge wrote: post #7

It is quite pathetic that a purported 'future of payments' is so inefficient in so many ways. This is why I will never participate in systems like bitcoin that consume hundreds of TwH (and growing) each year.

You better not particpate in fiat currencies that maintain themselves by spending TwHs to maintain their standing armies (or diplomatic relations with countries that do have standing armies).

Don't you need the armies to protect the infrastructure that powers bitcoin? And if you get to the point where you don't need armies, do you need a massive global network to verify you can trust the people you're doing business with?

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#35

Post by abledon » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

amir734jj wrote: post #21

juanbyrge wrote: post #7

It is quite pathetic that a purported 'future of payments' is so inefficient in so many ways. This is why I will never participate in systems like bitcoin that consume hundreds of TwH (and growing) each year.

As an owner of 50 bitcoins that I bought in 2010, I must say I agree with you. I don't see bitcoin as a future of money nor payment.

what about Ethereum?

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#36

Post by eloff » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #24

eloff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a payment system (unless the transaction is sufficiently large). It's more like digital gold. But gold has a track record of holding value over millennia. Bitcoin is only a decade old. Will it hold up over time? Nobody actually knows.

> Nobody actually knows. We could make an educated guess, however. Gold has intrinsic value, which gives it a significant advantage over a tiny arrangement of bits in an ocean of them.

It does, but that only establishes a low floor on the price of gold. If it had no value as a store of wealth, it would plummet in value to a tiny fraction of what it is actually worth.

Bitcoin has a floor of 0 in theory.

I would also guess that makes gold better as a store of wealth. But given that the price rarely ever approaches that floor means it might not matter. And bitcoin is harder to steal (at least you don't have to pay someone to guard it in a vault), easier to divide and transact and verify ownership. I don't claim to know how it will turn out.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#37

Post by throwawayQuwcy » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:01 AM UTC

m00dy wrote: post #26

Hi guys, I'm trying to reach bitcoin miners or mining farms that are powered by renewable energy. Anyone can help me to get any leads ? eren@countingcarbons.co

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bitcoin+mining+renewable+energy

https://cointelegraph.com/news/report-76-crypto-miners-use-r...

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#38

Post by Guzba » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #23

Guzba wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's database?

It’s ironic the premise is we trust nuclear weapons to the government but not our pithy accounts of bitcoin - which in the event of a trust-less government is worthless (because of the arsenal)

Odd framing. No one "trusts" nuclear weapons to the government as opposed to having control themselves. "Pithy accounts" (money) represent to a fairly large degree an individual's autonomy / freedom / independence. Is it so bad to find it appealing that one may wish to assert more control over this given the choice?

I say this as someone who finds crypto to look like almost a complete scam but I can't dispute the appeal of the concept.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#39

Post by starkd » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #24

eloff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a payment system (unless the transaction is sufficiently large). It's more like digital gold. But gold has a track record of holding value over millennia. Bitcoin is only a decade old. Will it hold up over time? Nobody actually knows.

> Nobody actually knows. We could make an educated guess, however. Gold has intrinsic value, which gives it a significant advantage over a tiny arrangement of bits in an ocean of them.

Aside from some industrial uses, gold really has no intrinsic value aside from cosmetic. And cosmetic use is really just shared appreciation. There's really no reason btc couldn't offer shared value as medium of exchange in the same way fiat currency serves. Just depends on enough people who agree to use it.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#40

Post by wtf_is_up » Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

iagovar wrote: post #22

JulianMorrison wrote: post #5

Bitcoin needs to get mapped across 1:1 to something that doesn't require vast number crunching energy use, and the old blockchain abandoned

I've very skeptical for cryptos, specially about their regulatory survival, but I've been studying it a bit, and aside some obscure cryptos that are propably genius, I found nano worth mentioning as currency, and Cardano seems on track for a blank sheet replacement of Ethereum.

I am speculating on Algorand after doing some research and listening to a talk by Biden's SEC chair Gary Gensler where he spoke positively about it. It is a cool project in the Proof of Stake space. Although there are several "Eth killers", Algo included, that could go nowhere.