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Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

latimes.com

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Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#51

Post by t-writescode »

adamcstephens wrote: post #10
t-writescode wrote: post #4

So, question. Does China afford people and companies the same ability to “not work with the FBI” that the United States does? Because at the end of the day, Apple is following US law by refusing to freely hand things over. That’s what warrants, etc, are for. In the US we intentionally make it theoretically hard for law enforcement to do their job so they’re theoretically more likely to get the right person if the ful…

Apple isn’t required by law to contest the requests from law enforcement. They could provide assistance without even telling the target. For example, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine You are correct that they can’t refuse in China, but they’ve chosen to fight in the US.

Apple is allowed by law to contest them, though and so they are following the law.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#52

Post by Judgmentality »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #48
Judgmentality wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All your points are valid and I'm not saying China can't make a brand. But you're comparing Pepsi to Coke. Everybody knows which one is more desirable.

"Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. So, not a good example. And you overestimate how much more desirable Apple seems over Chinese brands in the developing world: millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world.

> "Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries.

This is interesting. It's the opposite in most of the Americas, and I never saw anything like that in Europe. But I admittedly know very little about Africa and East Asia.

> millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world.

I'm not saying Chinese products aren't ubiquitous, I'm saying they can't build a globally dominant brand like Apple. These people also associate this stuff with being cheap, and once they have the means they will want to switch to a more premium product, aka Apple. If anything this sounds like an argument for Android over Apple and I think it's backwards. Android is everywhere but Apple (I realize I'm being a little loose with iOS vs Apple) is still the premium brand.

Anyway, I think we should just agree to disagree. Cheers.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#53

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Judgmentality wrote: post #52
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. So, not a good example. And you overestimate how much more desirable Apple seems over Chinese brands in the developing world: millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world.

> "Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. This is interesting. It's the opposite in most of the Americas, and I never saw anything like that in Europe. But I admittedly know very little about Africa and East Asia. > millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world. I'm not saying Chinese products…

> once they have the means they will want to switch to a more premium product, aka Apple.

Huawei’s range of products and reputation continues to grow. It is no longer seen, as it once was, as a low-end brand in much of Europe (that would be Xiaomi). So, by the time that developing-world populations are able to afford Apple solutions, Huawei would have already covered the higher-end segment and become known for quality.

I strongly encourage you to see Africa and Asia firsthand before making claims about Apple versus other brands.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#54

Post by Judgmentality »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #53
Judgmentality wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. This is interesting. It's the opposite in most of the Americas, and I never saw anything like that in Europe. But I admittedly know very little about Africa and East Asia. > millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world. I'm not saying Chinese products…

> once they have the means they will want to switch to a more premium product, aka Apple. Huawei’s range of products and reputation continues to grow. It is no longer seen, as it once was, as a low-end brand in much of Europe (that would be Xiaomi). So, by the time that developing-world populations are able to afford Apple solutions, Huawei would have already covered the higher-end segment and become known for qualit…

I realize this is going to sound like I'm being hyperbolic to continue the argument, but I've literally never seen a Huawei phone in my life. It's hard for me to imagine them becoming the Apple of anything when I don't know anybody who has one (at least to my knowledge).

But you have a point. I have blind spots. I could be wrong. Ultimately this is just my opinion.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#55

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Judgmentality wrote: post #54
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> once they have the means they will want to switch to a more premium product, aka Apple. Huawei’s range of products and reputation continues to grow. It is no longer seen, as it once was, as a low-end brand in much of Europe (that would be Xiaomi). So, by the time that developing-world populations are able to afford Apple solutions, Huawei would have already covered the higher-end segment and become known for qualit…

I realize this is going to sound like I'm being hyperbolic to continue the argument, but I've literally never seen a Huawei phone in my life. It's hard for me to imagine them becoming the Apple of anything when I don't know anybody who has one (at least to my knowledge). But you have a point. I have blind spots. I could be wrong. Ultimately this is just my opinion.

Your post history suggests that you are in the USA. That is where Apple phones have the greatest market penetration (and Huawei, perhaps, the least) and the mobile landscape looks most clearly like "Apple versus Android". But again, if you just get out there and travel the world, you will soon find that Apple is little-known in so much of it.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#56

Post by rsj_hn »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #55
Judgmentality wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this is going to sound like I'm being hyperbolic to continue the argument, but I've literally never seen a Huawei phone in my life. It's hard for me to imagine them becoming the Apple of anything when I don't know anybody who has one (at least to my knowledge). But you have a point. I have blind spots. I could be wrong. Ultimately this is just my opinion.

Your post history suggests that you are in the USA. That is where Apple phones have the greatest market penetration (and Huawei, perhaps, the least) and the mobile landscape looks most clearly like "Apple versus Android". But again, if you just get out there and travel the world, you will soon find that Apple is little-known in so much of it.

You understand that up until mid 2019 Hauwei was using Android, right? And even today, it's just a fork of android. Hauwei was never able to write their own OS or even create their own products. Their first routers would boot up with the IOS command prompt, and even their manuals had cut and paste of IOS documentation. Just blatant copying.

Once Hauwei actually builds innovative operating systems and creates new product spaces that aren't ripped off copies of western models, they can start acquiring the reputation of making good products.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#57

Post by jeffrogers »

tomComb wrote: post #21
jeffrogers wrote: post #19

Hmm. My first thought is that this is not China. We have different expectations here and ones that sometimes run counter to the conveniences US law enforcement would like to have. Whatever happens in China, my expectations are that our goverment should work differently here and Apple should as well.

Well, yeah, but that puts all their talk about privacy in a different light. They sell it like it's a moral principle or a human right, not just what works best for them in certain Western markets.

Sure, but regardless of how they justify what they do I only care that their domestic actions are consistent with US laws, traditions, and expectations.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#58

Post by subsaharancoder »

Judgmentality wrote: post #52
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. So, not a good example. And you overestimate how much more desirable Apple seems over Chinese brands in the developing world: millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world.

> "Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. This is interesting. It's the opposite in most of the Americas, and I never saw anything like that in Europe. But I admittedly know very little about Africa and East Asia. > millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world. I'm not saying Chinese products…

"Pepsi" as a brands is basically non-existent in East Africa, "Coke" is as ubiquitous as asking for a glass of water.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#60

Post by m00x »

Judgmentality wrote: post #52
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. So, not a good example. And you overestimate how much more desirable Apple seems over Chinese brands in the developing world: millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world.

> "Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. This is interesting. It's the opposite in most of the Americas, and I never saw anything like that in Europe. But I admittedly know very little about Africa and East Asia. > millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world. I'm not saying Chinese products…

Even in Canada, Pepsi is seen as superior by most of the population.
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