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Taxing Families Like Companies

americancompass.org

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Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#11

Post by mooreds »

sokoloff wrote: post #4

Of all the potential problems facing our species, running out of new people does not seem to be a concern at all. I’m not surprised that during a worldwide pandemic, our birthrate fell in a society marked by ready access to effective contraception. I don’t think it’s reasonable to draw a straight line through that and worry about declining population, but I suspect this was written to be read about as reasonably as “…

I agree that this is definitely tongue in cheek, but "running out of new people" is going to change our economy in pretty drastic ways.

See, for instance, this post on the upcoming issues for China due to demographic difficulties: https://zeihan.com/the-end-of-the-last-best-chance/

It takes 20 years to make a 20 year old, and economies, especially those like the USA where consumer spending drives most of GDP, need to adjust if there's changes in birth rates. We did it one way with the boomers, will have to do it again in a different way if there's a bust.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#13

Post by zappo2938 »

prepend wrote: post #2

> As a result, families pay a disproportionate share of federal tax receipts This is simply because companies pay money to individuals who then pay taxes. This is a feature not a bug as taxing companies is less efficient from just having employee pay as a deduction that gets taxed downstream. Trying to tax this money before it gets to employees would result in double taxation as the company would pay and the individu…

This article is another conservative puff piece that doesn't belong on Hacker News. They are pushing for a flat tax which is a regressive tax.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#14

Post by hourislate »

lambda_obrien wrote: post #3

How about we just ensure everyone has enough by implementing UBI or a negative tax rate, combined with medicare for all? Then everyone has what they need without the complexity of turning humans into financial objects.

The system is based on Scarcity and Inflation. There can never be abundance. A good example is the US has wasted 10 Trillion plus (since 2008) fighting Deflation and hasn't made the slightest difference, Technological Deflation continues to eat the world at an exponential rate.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#15

Post by encoderer »

prepend wrote: post #2

> As a result, families pay a disproportionate share of federal tax receipts This is simply because companies pay money to individuals who then pay taxes. This is a feature not a bug as taxing companies is less efficient from just having employee pay as a deduction that gets taxed downstream. Trying to tax this money before it gets to employees would result in double taxation as the company would pay and the individu…

You’re talking about why we can’t treat corporations like families with higher tax rates. To me the more interesting question is more about treating families like corporations.

We had a nanny for a year. She made about $50k, but I had to pay her with after-tax income so the actual cost of the nanny was closer to $70k of my pretax income. This is the precise double taxation you’re talking about.

Yes, higher income people have more deductions, but that’s what AMT is for.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#16

Post by bpodgursky »

sokoloff wrote: post #4

Of all the potential problems facing our species, running out of new people does not seem to be a concern at all. I’m not surprised that during a worldwide pandemic, our birthrate fell in a society marked by ready access to effective contraception. I don’t think it’s reasonable to draw a straight line through that and worry about declining population, but I suspect this was written to be read about as reasonably as “…

You only feel this way because you aren't paying attention to the demographics of eastern europe and east asia.

If it was simply a matter of "running out of new people" it might be OK -- a gradual decrease in population of 50% over a few generation could be sustainable. That's not the issue

The core problem is long lifespans creating a massively inverted age pyramid. At the extreme, the emerging pattern in urban China is 1 child supporting 2 parents supporting 4 grandparents supporting 8 great-grandparents. This isn't a smooth transition to a smaller population; it means that the young are crushed under the burden of supporting a huge population of the elderly.

It crushes dynamicism. It crushes innovation. Crushes education, and depresses fertility _further_, because the kids are too indebted and overtaxed (emotionally -- family care) and literally to ever have children of their own.

It's a death spiral, and a real problem.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#17

Post by giardini »

Fuhgeddaboudit! Simply begin taxing non-profit corporations.

Much more tax income would be generated and auditing these firms would uncover a whole host of criminal operations. Non-profits have been extremely lax with their bookkeeping b/c they aren't taxed. Their immigrant assistant programs are shady and some probably illegal. But w/o auditing its hard to get a conviction.

The Roman Catholic Church in the USA relocates/hides priests accused of pedophilia or other sexual activity. That is certainly socially unacceptable and may be criminal yet the Church merely writes it off as an expense. You pay for this with your weekly/monthly tithe/donation to the Church. The government grants them monies that are used to support all of their activities, these included.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#18

Post by maxerickson »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #10

In the UK, I get a little frustrated there is such a focus on an individual's income rather than a family's income - if you consider the tax paid by a pair of working parents each earning £50k vs a family where 1 person earns 100k and the other does not work, the pair earning £50k each are much better off. (Child tax credits are removed gradually as the higher earner exceeds £50k, as well as the tax bands meaning som…

All that time not spent working (by the partner in the high earning family) is worth more than 0.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#19

Post by hedora »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #5
lambda_obrien wrote: post #3

How about we just ensure everyone has enough by implementing UBI or a negative tax rate, combined with medicare for all? Then everyone has what they need without the complexity of turning humans into financial objects.

This would not work.UBI would raise inflation to sky high level making basic utilities and products super expensive. UBI needs to be combined with taxes and tax exemptions on things that are essential to life like housing and healthy food,healthcare and some other things I cant think of right now.Everything else can be treated as a luxury and can be achieved through conventional capitalist methods.

UBI + a flat tax with no exemptions can be tuned so that the UBI covers everything welfare programs currently provide, the middle class pays about the same, and all of the wealthy pay their fair share.

It would eliminate many classes of fraud, government spending on administration of social services, and also the tax preparation industry. I think those are the main reasons it doesn’t happen.

Re: Taxing Families Like Companies

#20

Post by benjohnson »

zappo2938 wrote: post #13
prepend wrote: post #2

> As a result, families pay a disproportionate share of federal tax receipts This is simply because companies pay money to individuals who then pay taxes. This is a feature not a bug as taxing companies is less efficient from just having employee pay as a deduction that gets taxed downstream. Trying to tax this money before it gets to employees would result in double taxation as the company would pay and the individu…

This article is another conservative puff piece that doesn't belong on Hacker News. They are pushing for a flat tax which is a regressive tax.

Combined with UBI, it could have merit.

However the combination will never happen as it doesn’t allow politicians to play favorites and reward their buddies.

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